Dawn Versus Connor

[nerd4hire]

I'm still trying to make sense of Dawn-hate. She's always been one of my favourite characters. I think I might kind of get it. I think maybe, some people feel towards her the way I feel towards Connor.

To me he felt forced in, unnecessary, and it seemed like there were better ways to go. Plus I just didn't like the guy.

So I thought I'd poll this one out of curiousity.

[Buffy obsessed fan]

I personally do like Dawn, Connor not so much, though I don't hate him. I think yeah it's because of the sudden reason he was added. With Dawn it was really important for season fives storyline. And sure Connor was for the whole thing with Holtz I guess, just really was it really necessary for him to grow up that quick? Okay sure having a baby around might be a little harder, yeah. But if they were gonna have him grow up I wish he wasn't in it as much. He does seem pretty forced in. Dawn doesn't. To me, anyway.

[Blondie Bear]

I didn't like Dawn at first, but she's grown on me. By S7 I thought she was becoming quite the mature young lady--extraordinary, as Xander said. I feel bad for her in S8--I wish she had more of a role in what's going on.

I hate Connor. It almost feels like the writers went--"Hey, this adding a teenager thing worked on Buffy! Let's do it on Angel!" without really thinking it through. So they didn't exactly know what to do with him, hence his wishy-washy-ness. He didn't fit, not the way Dawn fit.

[eponinethen]

Dawn, I have to sorta like, she's alright. After all, in the Epo/Joamna-sisterhood, she's Joan and I'm Umad. Connor? Well, he's probably the only Joss-created character that I ever really hated. There is – in my opinion – nothing interesting or positive about him. I wish he'd go away. Kinda now.

[Bluebird]

I voted for Like Them Both. Sure I had my doubts about both of them at first but I never hated either of them and really do think they are good characters. There's so much Connor hate around:( and it means I've had to defend Connor A LOT.

Dawn was just as whiny and moany as Connor yet he had so much more reason to be like that. I didn't like the whole sleeping with Cordelia thing either but the actual character of Connor I liked. Then he came back in season 5, so cool.

[Dlou444]

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO VOTE!!!!! ACK!!!

I can't really say I LIKED Dawn. I think she was a pain in more ways than one. I felt a little interest when it first came out where she came from, but that ended quickly. And there was a tiny bit of interest when Buffy was trying to keep her. And, I do like her relationship with Spike. (But I like Spike's relationship with everyone.)

I also can't say I LIKED Connor. If anything, the BEST part of his story was when and how he was born, with minor interest in him in season 5 and I gotta say I like him better in the comic book than most of the other seasons.

I do think Dawn was cast better. I like VK, but I still don't feel like he really "fit" in the role. I think if he had been just a TAD bit more expressive, I would have liked him better.

In any case, I DO think Dawn and Connor need to hook up.
I would LOVE to see them "accidently" run into each other and fall in love like Romeo and Juliet before anyone explains to them who the other is.

That being said, my biggest problem with Dawn was that she was SO immature. Not just in a "kid sister" way, but compared to the rest of the cast when THEY were 15! It just bugged me.

[Cangel]

Like Dawn, hate Connor.
I think the reason for this is that I can just relate to Dawn, but in no way possible to Connor. Like Dawn I am also the kid sister who needs to get protected from everything, so I could sometimes just understand Dawn so well. Connor, on the other hand, I didn't get at all.

[edb]

I didn't really like Dawn, I just found her annoying and whiny all the time, and well really I didn't like Connor either until he came back in the last season when he was 'issue free'. I can understand why they were like they were, but it doesn't mean I have to like them any more 'lol'

The moment they appeared on my screen I just didn't take to them - I'm like that with people I meet in RL too, and thankfully I'm usually not wrong about people.

First impressions count greatly with me, and Dawn & Connor's wasn't that brilliant for me.

[littlewilly]

Dawn is likeable enough.
Connors a gimp

[Lindsey McDonald]

I liked Dawn too. I never got why people disliked her. If anything, the Scoobies were too mature in Season 1. But that's cause they had to be. Look at what they dealt with. Dawn was always sheltered from that. Well, apart from the fact that she didn't exist. But you know what I mean. I thought her reactions throughout were very believeable, and her storylines were interesting. I even liked the whole "Get out, Get Out, GET OUT!" bit!

Connor on the other hand? He seriously bored me. It was like with Riley: he had the one storyline that they kept using every episode. Riley didn't have any superpowers, Connor had daddy issues. It just got old fast. His introduction was wonderful, but that was mainly due to Darla, Angel and Cordelia. Babies don't generaly win the Oscars. As a teenager, he contributed to the Jasmine plotline, but that was about it. He wasn't interesting at all.

[Buffanator]

I hated Dawn- what a whiney baby! - ick! - STFU already with that high-pitched "GetOutGetOutGetOut!!!!!" *rolleyes*

But I did like the IDEA of "the key" ... I just wish she would have died in the end of S-5.

As for Connor... I LOVED him as a baby. Loved the way he was conceived, the "impossibility" of his existence, etc. How Darla FELT his soul, and for the first/only time in her life, she SACRIFICED - for him. I loved the whole "kidnapped Connor" story, etc. But I HATED Connor coming back from Q-toth as a pissed off teenager. What a sappy little bastard he was. I loved every single scene that he got his ass kicked... by Angel, the Beast, Faith. Loved seeing him get "his whoop'n" ... wish it had happened more often!

I didn't really vote on this, because, there wasn't an option for how I felt for either of them.

[MSchett]

dawns great conner sucks ;)

[MozYa]

I liked Dawn more than Connor.

I think its because when i first watched Buffy with Dawn's character i could relate to her more than when Connor was introduced in Angel.

I like both characters but Dawn more.

[Dlou444]

I liked Dawn too. I never got why people disliked her. If anything, the Scoobies were too mature in Season 1. But that's cause they had to be. Look at what they dealt with. Dawn was always sheltered from that. Well, apart from the fact that she didn't exist. But you know what I mean. I thought her reactions throughout were very believeable, and her storylines were interesting. I even liked the whole "Get out, Get Out, GET OUT!" bit!




I kind of get what you're saying about Dawn, but on the other hand, since they changed the past, supposedly she'd been "in" everything from the get go. So she shouldn't have BEEN that much more immature than the rest of the Scoobies. Maybe a little, but not THAT much.
I just felt it was a little too much of a contrast. And, in many cases, too "out there". There were at least a handful of times I wanted to just slap her and say, "Sure, you're a teenager, you got teenager issues, but do you NOT SEE that there are bigger things going on here?"
That is what really always got to me. I felt like the rest of the Scoobies had their "growing pains" too but always sucked it up because something bigger was going on. Even whiney Buffy when she felt like playing "poor me" was able to suck it up when she was supposed to. Dawn just kept it up. It even made the normal Teenaged Fits seem a little too over the top for me.

[Starlet]

I liked Dawn, she was a good character but I really disliked Connor. I've never could understand him and his behaviour. Dawn was sometimes annoying but she would never do things which Connor did. He often acted very selfishly for example when he locked Angel In a casket and drown him. I can see he was really mad at Angel because he thought he was the killer of Holtz but how could he lie for several moths seeing everybody so worried while looking for him? Don't mention he was needed for helping other people.

[Spirit_Of_Fred]

i also like dawn but not connor, so ill try to decipher why thats the case.

well, as some people have kind of said, dawn is a bit more relatable. when she whines, it can be about typical teenage issues that anyone who's been (or is) a teenager could understand. of course, some people might still get annoyed, because understanding why someone is screaming and whining doesnt make it less annoying. still, connor, in comparison, grew up in a hell dimension and has all this complicated stuff going on, which id be surprised if anyone said (honestly) that theyd been through.

as for dawn acting her age, it makes sense to me. based on the impression i got from 'real me', with buffy not wanting to show her the dead guy, joyce not wanting her involved in a murder scene, etc. it does seem like she was sheltered more than the other scoobies from the demon world. plus, there's the whole "they wanted dawn to be a younger age, but made her a little older because they wanted michelle trachtenberg" schtick, but thats part truth part fanwank. anyway, i believe that for her age, dawn wasnt particularly immature. teenhood is a crazy time, and i know a couple of teens that act that immature in real life. still, though, those teens can be just as annoying as some people find dawn. oh well. i guess thats why some people only like her season 7 and on.

theres also the fact that dawn's annoying-ness came from all her screaming and crying, whereas connor's was crueler (such as trying to kill his dad), due to his different issues. maybe whiny, screaming teenager is less annoying than cruel, homicidal teenager? hey, i can only speculate what everyone is thinking. ...well that and read these posts :D. all i know is that i like dawn in all the seasons she was in, but i dont really like connor.

[Lindsey McDonald]

I kind of get what you're saying about Dawn, but on the other hand, since they changed the past, supposedly she'd been "in" everything from the get go. So she shouldn't have BEEN that much more immature than the rest of the Scoobies. Maybe a little, but not THAT much.
I just felt it was a little too much of a contrast. And, in many cases, too "out there". There were at least a handful of times I wanted to just slap her and say, "Sure, you're a teenager, you got teenager issues, but do you NOT SEE that there are bigger things going on here?"
That is what really always got to me. I felt like the rest of the Scoobies had their "growing pains" too but always sucked it up because something bigger was going on. Even whiney Buffy when she felt like playing "poor me" was able to suck it up when she was supposed to. Dawn just kept it up. It even made the normal Teenaged Fits seem a little too over the top for me.

I also see what you're saying, but you have to remember that the Scoobies were forced to mature quickly by circumstance. Cordelia is the best and most extreme example of this. She was directly involved in the whole demons and dead people from early on, and changed completely in a few years. Dawn was always (in her manufactured world) protected from that, which led to her being jealous and immature. It basically had the opposite effect of what happened to the Scoobies, so when she was forced into that world she couldn't really cope. Despite knowing about it, prior to Blood Ties (IIRC that's when she finds out that she is the Key,) she wasn't ever allowed to see or participate in it. Just look at Joyce's reaction to her being at a murder scene in Real Me to see how overprotected she was.

[Wiccaness]

I have soft spot for Dawn. At times she would be really bratty but i never hated her. Connor on the other hand....id rather not say lol....he wasnt my most favorite almost likable character in my book

[Lindsey McDonald]

nerd4hire agrees: Yeah, Dawn was Joyce's li'l pumpking belly, right.

Ok, I don't have a clue what that means. Or even if you're agreeing with me!

Edit:

Blondie Bear agrees: Joyce called Dawn her "lil punkin belly" remember?

Oh yeah! Without the context I couldn't tell if it was a "Yeah, right...." or a "Yeah, right!" Makes sense now.

[nerd4hire]

Was it the typo that threw you? :) Pumpking, where did that come from?

Not to worry, I was agreeing with you. Dawn was the baby. Spoiled and over-protected. Here's the quote from No Place Like Home to clarify.

JOYCE
Buffy, I know you're concerned,
but don't be. I'm still the Mom,
which means I get to worry about
you two. And it's a good thing,
because you're a vampire slayer and you...
(squeezing Dawn)
...you're my little punkin' belly.

DAWN
Mom! That's like, my kid name.

JOYCE
So? I can't be retro?

DAWN
I'm fourteen. Nicknames like
"little pumpkin belly" tend to
flatline growing self-esteem.

BUFFY
(to Joyce)
You ever have names for me?

JOYCE
(lovingly)
No, I think you were always just... Buffy.

[Primal Slayer]

I didnt like Dawn that much in S5 due to her little sister syndrom of being the annoying one. But later on down the road I grew to like her more and loved her in S7.

Conner on the other hand, I never really liked him. His entire attitude was annoying to me. And well I was never that big of a fan of Angel having a baby.

[InsaneMystic]

I voted "I like both", even though it's more love Dawn, like Connor. Didn't like Dawn at all when I first watched S5, but that was more because of the "WTF they're doing to my show? where does that kid come from?" than because of Dawn as a person. I find her cute, even in her peskyness.

And Connor... well, I can relate to his lostness. Childhood/teen years in hell, abuse and manipulation, hatred for a parent - I've been there too, minus the metaphores, so the boy gets to me. And I've been stuck in the situation for many years - Connor got it all magically sorted out for him in a wee bit more than one year, which is pretty fast IMO, and the thought of him being so lost and dead-ended that a magical "reboot" of his past life is the only way out for him rings a bell for me too. Hmm... perhaps you've gotta be as desperate as Connor himself to like him?

[MSchett]

Dawn isnt nearly as bad as Connor

Connor gets so easily manipulated by the big bads, that what annoys me!!!!

[Tranquillity]

no surprises here - i voted for 'Love, love, love em both. Dawn and Connor should meet, mate, and have babies.' I've been a Dawner shipper for a while now:)...

but seriously, I have grown to love Dawn over my many re-viewings of the show. And Connor, is pretty much the same. I though he was lovely in Origin, when he came back into Angel's life after the mind wipe - he was a mature, caring, morally upright and he had a sense of humor, something which he totally lacked before, probably due to a childhood spent in a hell dimension. Plus he totally rocks in the comics.

[alexa]

Wow I'm the lonely number 1 up there who, likes Connor but not Dawn ;)
This isn't completely accurate because she's grown on me.. and I like her in episodes like Crush ..Him etc. But for most of her screen time she just annoyed me, or I was wondering why she was there. Generally speaking any new character has to walk a fine line to impress me anyway. Not sure why Connor made the cut, even when he was being a little *insert bad name*... could be that he's cute, or mostly he just seemed to have so much going in within himself.. like depth and his own story. Where as Dawn is or was just Buffy's sister.

[JollyApe]

I don't really mind Dawn. She was okay, at least in season 7. Disliked her ineptitude in the first 5-6. She was a bad young girl stereotype at times, no inner power. But like I said, that changed somewhat with season 7. Season 5-6 she was a bad character used in a good way. Season 7 she became a kinda interesting character.

Connor on the other hand...well I don't really mind him either. What I do mind is the way he was used. The plotline of him siring Jasmine seriously turned me off. The character in himself had some good potential and I liked the story of his creation. A good character destroyed by they way TPTB used him.

So put me down in the indifferent category -- or well seeing how there isn't one, I'll just pass on voting.