Killing team Angel

[Wolframandheart]

I love Angel, but damn, why kill the core group? All in one season?

Cordy's death was sad, but then they kill Fred like 3 episodes later :( Then Wesley and Gunn both in the last episode(I assume he died anyway since he was bleeding to death and Illyria said he had 10 minutes left)

Just felt it was a bit much :(

[The Kinslayer]

People rarely stay dead in the whedonverse. ;)

But I can´t help to like the idea of everyone getting killed. Ok, that sounded more morbid that I had hoped. It´s just, they were fighting a hopeless fight more or less. Not that you ever should admit deafeat. I love the whole idea of "let´s go down fighting". Sad moments then everybody died, sure. But still not complaining too much.

But I´m a bit strange. I wanted HP to die in the last book as well. As long as Hermione and Luna had survided I´d been satisfied.

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[Lindsey McDonald]

People rarely stay dead in the whedonverse. ;)

But I can´t help to like the idea of everyone getting killed. Ok, that sounded more morbid that I had hoped. It´s just, they were fighting a hopeless fight more or less. Not that you ever should admit deafeat. I love the whole idea of "let´s go down fighting". Sad moments then everybody died, sure. But still not complaining too much.

But I´m a bit strange. I wanted HP to die in the last book as well. As long as Hermione and Luna had survided I´d been satisfied.

And welcome to the boards! Why not introduce yourself? Check In - Buffy-Boards (http://www.buffy-boards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32)

HP Well, he kind of did! But if Luna had died....I'd have probably been more upset than after Tara, which is saying something!

The thing I don't get is that they didn't really know that this was the last Season before they started, so the multiple early deaths were a bit weird. I thought they had hoped to get picked up again, so why kill everyone? Just seems a little counterproductive to me. Creatively more satisfying on Joss' part, but it kind of closes doors. But then again, as Kin said, death really means nothing in the Buffyverse. It usually guarantees more appearances if anything!

[white avenger]

I don't really think that killing off the entire team in Season 5 was the idea. Cordy was gone, and they were basically just letting Charisma have an episode to say "goodbye" in, though with the way Whedon uses death, that was no indication that we would never see her again. I think that there was a plan to have Fred and Illyria divided into two separate entities by the end of the season, but, with the show ending when it did, they dropped that idea. I'm not sure if Wes and Gunn were always supposed to end up the way that they are in Season 6, but they're not really gone. Without getting into spoilers for Season 6, there's not a whole lot more that can be said about them, except that everyone is still there in one form or another.

[Lindsey McDonald]

I think they made it pretty clear that Fred could never come back. Moreso than even Tara. She almost did. But Fred's soul was completely destroyed, and they made quite a big thing of it. I suppose they could have made a u-turn, but it didn't seem to be where they were going.

[CharmedSlayer85]

I do know that Amy Acker said had there been a Season Six Gunn would have been a vampire, which is evident from the Season Six comics as he is a vampire, also Wesley would not have died in the end of the series, but since the show was not getting picked up Joss decided to have one of his major characters die and he felt he could get the most emotion out of an Illyria/Wesley scene so he killed him off. But yeah I think it's interesting that everybody that started on Buffy that didn't go to Angel are all very much alive and all those from Angel are all dead

[The Kinslayer]

HP Well, he kind of did! But if Luna had died....I'd have probably been more upset than after Tara, which is saying something!
True. But I meant more in the lines of gone forever. No more pressure to do new books with HP. A good closure as good as anything. Not that I mind him being married with children.


I thought they had hoped to get picked up again, so why kill everyone?
I actually don´t see Fred as that dead. Well, of course she is but we got Illyria. So they weren´t the same person. But you can´t say what Cordelia or Wesley was the "same" person at the end as they were then they first appeared. I see it more like character development. ;) Stupid thinking I know, but the important thing, no matter how much I loved Fred, was that Amy stayed on the show.

Don´t think Wesley had been killed if there had been a 6th season. And Cordelia, well she more or less died in the previous season. So I don´t think it´s that bad.

[MSchett]

in the final episode if anyone had to die it had to be Wes... Angel cant die cuz hes needed for comics, same as Spike, illyria wasnt around long enough to get any char attachment and Gunns whole relationship with fred had already ended... Since wes's change to being a harder person Joss knew that giving him that last moment of vunerablity would be a tear jerker

[Cangel]

I thought it kind of sucked how they all died. Well, not just those, the death wave started before that, like, for example, when Lilah was killed off.
Well anyway, all these deaths made the show a whole lot darker, which is good in a way. On the other side, we didn't get anything of a happy ending in any way, which is a little sad.
And gotta say, Whedon did a pretty good job nevertheless. Normally, whenever a hero is involved, we either have him dying, or we have a less important death, a friend maybe (somehow similar to HP maybe). Here it was completely different. The hero survived, but pretty much everyone of his team (well his team from let's say season 3 anyway) died. This does have some charm.

[white avenger]

As far as "killing off team Angel" is concerned, the finale of Season 5 could have been seen as one more "Remember The Alamo," or "SPARTANS...Prepare for GLORY!!" scene. Four people, okay, two vampires, one hell god, and a badly wounded lawyer, standing at one end of an alley while all of the hoards of hell come charging at them with distinctly unfriendly intentions from the other. Despite everything Joss might have said, even before "Angel: After The Fall " came along, that looked like pure last stand material to me. It looked for a long time like the only sequel possible would be "Lorne Sings Nat King Cole."

[littlewilly]

I didnt really mind because it was the last season, but if they had tried to kill a couple of them in s3 or s4 it wouldve been bad.
I was glad Wes ws killed, his character became pretty dull, Very happy with what happened to Gunn(vamp Gunns just cool) Fred and Cordy(same reason as Wes)
But in Angel they showed that even killing a Major character like Cordy the show didnt suffer, and well, last season, they may as well kill everyone. Id say theres even less chance of an Angel spinoff than a Buffy one.

[chiigusa]

I thought that Joss got the notice that it was his last season of Angel about mid-way through season 5, which is why he crammed all he could into the last half of the season. Had he had one or two more seasons, I don't think as many characters would have died. I think the Fred/Illyria thing was supposed to be a season later, but because they ran out of time, they threw it into that season too. I could be crazy, but I remember reading/hearing that.

Either way, I was not very satisfied by the last episode, but am quite glad there's a comic. When it ended, I was like. Uhhh what? Noooo! I didn't get that same satisfaction as I did with Buffy, which I'm sure was the point. So, good job, Joss, haha.

[MSchett]

What woulda happened in S6 (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=12499)
its all right there from an interview with Joss yeah im pretty sure he got his cancelation notice around the time of You're Welcome

[Primal Slayer]

What woulda happened in S6 (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=12499)
its all right there from an interview with Joss yeah im pretty sure he got his cancelation notice around the time of You're Welcome

you know I would have preferred that S6 in comic form rather then La in hell.

[Mavd]

Well, i guess that in the final fight, Gunn died, Angel, Spike and Illyria survived. L.A is a big mess. I hate the idea of the comic where Spike and Lorne became lords of some areas or whatever they were called. I think it ruined Angel for me. I think it would've been cool if Willow arrives to seperate Illyria from Fred or somehow they share the same body. Oh, and i'm new here. Nice to meet you all.

[littlewilly]

Just read (what would have happened in s6) omg im glad i was cancelled.
Illyria being split from Fred, Willow becoming a regular, fighting dragons in different dimensions... hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhaha lmfao!
hahahaha, oh, i can just imagine Joss presenting these ideas to the network, ''can we please network dude? theres gonna be dragons and demons being split in two'' hahahahahaahaha

[Lindsey McDonald]

Just read (what would have happened in s6) omg im glad i was cancelled.
Illyria being split from Fred, Willow becoming a regular, fighting dragons in different dimensions... hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhaha lmfao!
hahahaha, oh, i can just imagine Joss presenting these ideas to the network, ''can we please network dude? theres gonna be dragons and demons being split in two'' hahahahahaahaha

What? Where did you pull all that nonsense from? The article said AH might be "reprising her role as Willow". That doesn't immediately make her a regular. And it said nothing about fighting dragons in different dimensions. They already fought the dragon remember? That flew with the network. They already did dimension hopping remember? That flew with the network? Joss was just planning to shift them again during or after the fight. And what's wrong with Illyria being split from Fred? Amy Acker was one of the best actors on the show. Just because you didn't like her doesn't mean the networks wouldn't let Joss do it. Oh, wait. They already did...

[littlewilly]

I would have LOVED if in s6 (tv s6 that is) if Vamp gunn was THE big bad, and they got the hell outta W & H.

[Lindsey McDonald]

I would have LOVED if in s6 (tv s6 that is) if Vamp gunn was THE big bad, and they got the hell outta W & H.

I think that would have worked really well. We needed a quieter, more down to earth Big Bad after Jasmine and Blackthorn. Too bad the comics are all kinds of bad.

[littlewilly]

. We needed a quieter, more down to earth Big Bad after Jasmine and Blackthorn. Too bad the comics are all kinds of bad.

Thats what i was thinking, and more down to earth season and BigBad, Gunn would be perfect for that. But to me down to earth means no characters like Illyria(she's as far away from earth as it gets) but also good to see would be Wes chillin out a bit and getting a bit of his humour back. Also, maybe bring back Kate??

[Lindsey McDonald]

Thats what i was thinking, and more down to earth season and BigBad, Gunn would be perfect for that. But to me down to earth means no characters like Illyria(she's as far away from earth as it gets) but also good to see would be Wes chillin out a bit and getting a bit of his humour back. Also, maybe bring back Kate??

I would have liked more of Kate too. But Illyria stays. I think her trying to adapt to a human life with severely reduced powers would have been very interesting. Kinda like Anya, only more arrogant. And I think she could have brought Wes back from his depression too.

[SpoonsAreCool]

I would have liked more of Kate too. But Illyria stays. I think her trying to adapt to a human life with severely reduced powers would have been very interesting. Kinda like Anya, only more arrogant. And I think she could have brought Wes back from his depression too.

Awww!! That sounds brilliant!!

[Lindsey McDonald]

white avenger agrees: Well, after reading ATF, I'm not sure but that Illyria's powers haven't increased dramatically since Season 5. Maybe it's from being in a more hell-like environment or something, but she certainly seems more powerful to me.

Yeah, I did notice that tbh, but I get the feeling that if Angel had continued as a series that probably wouldn't of happened. Not so soon anyway. I didn't like it at all in the comics though, so maybe it's just personal preference creeping in!