Professor Walsh's Original Plan?

[caritas08]

I just finished watching Season 4 for the 10th time and I was wondering what was Professor Walsh originally going to do with Adam and 314? I've carefully rewatched all of the episodes and still am not sure. Was her original plan to hurt humans or take control using Adam?

(I'm new and this is my first non "check in" post.)

[Blondie Bear]

You know, I'm not entirely sure. Do they ever specify? I think I assumed that they were trying to build super-soldiers.

[caritas08]

You know, I'm not entirely sure. Do they ever specify? I think I assumed that they were trying to build super-soldiers.


That seems to make the most sense. I still don't understand why she put a chip in Riley and if the whole scheme was some twisted way of trying to make the world a better place (like Jasmine) or if she just wanted power for herself.

[Blondie Bear]

Yeah, the Riley-chip seems out of place for a super-soldier thing. Unless she was trying to see who would be better--a demon-soldier or an amped-up human soldier . . . much in the style of Resident Evil 2.

[Cangel]

Yeah I think she was just experimenting on how to get a super soldier. And the reason why she put this chip thing in Riley was to make him more powerful...which kind of worked. He was pretty much her favourite soldier, so that's why she chose him.
Of course I could be making no sense at all, but that's how I see it.

[palabravampiress]

I think the Riley chip was phase 1 of a "build better soldiers" campaign, the purpose of phase 1 being to see how a human host would incorporate electronic and chemical components. I think Adam reflected a more advanced phase involving post-mortem integration of electronic, chemical, AND magical components. I don't think Maggie would have gone as far with a living human host, but once Adam died, I think that gave her the courage to see how far she could take things. She was a scientist, after all. It makes sense that she would push the boundaries of theoretical and/or traditional limitations. I think her goal was probably to fight fire with fire. Her team fought demons. Who better to fight demons than humans given an edge not just by their superior technology, but also by incorporating the strength and resources of the demons, themselves?

[caritas08]

I think the Riley chip was phase 1 of a "build better soldiers" campaign, the purpose of phase 1 being to see how a human host would incorporate electronic and chemical components. I think Adam reflected a more advanced phase involving post-mortem integration of electronic, chemical, AND magical components. I don't think Maggie would have gone as far with a living human host, but once Adam died, I think that gave her the courage to see how far she could take things. She was a scientist, after all. It makes sense that she would push the boundaries of theoretical and/or traditional limitations. I think her goal was probably to fight fire with fire. Her team fought demons. Who better to fight demons than humans given an edge not just by their superior technology, but also by incorporating the strength and resources of the demons, themselves?

So you think Adam was a human soldier who died while being experimented on or serving the Initiative and that's why he considers Riley a "brother"? I never picked up on that.

[palabravampiress]

^ Yeah. I don't remember whether or not it was specifically stated, but it was very heavily implied given the eventual reanimation and demon hybridization of Forest as well as the very strong allusions to Frankenstein, in which the monster was also an amalgam of dead human body parts. I do think I remember Adam once stating that parts of him used to be a human soldier, though.

[caritas08]

Yeah in the Yoko Factor....

Adam: Scout's Honor
Spike: You were a boy scout?
Adam: Parts of Me

[sk8rj04]

I think the Riley chip was phase 1 of a "build better soldiers" campaign, the purpose of phase 1 being to see how a human host would incorporate electronic and chemical components. I think Adam reflected a more advanced phase involving post-mortem integration of electronic, chemical, AND magical components. I don't think Maggie would have gone as far with a living human host, but once Adam died, I think that gave her the courage to see how far she could take things. She was a scientist, after all. It makes sense that she would push the boundaries of theoretical and/or traditional limitations. I think her goal was probably to fight fire with fire. Her team fought demons. Who better to fight demons than humans given an edge not just by their superior technology, but also by incorporating the strength and resources of the demons, themselves?

This pretty much sums up my thinking. They were both badder soldiers she could use in the governmental world battling demons.

[Dlou444]

Well, and Riley didn't just have the chip but the weirdo vitamins and whatever it was that made his heart go crazy when he kept saying he had "super powers" and was "feeling no pain"....all that was the Initiative and I'm thinking mostly Maggie.

But, what to DO with Adam seems a bit off to me. But, I'm sure she thought he'd be more "trainable" than he was.

[caritas08]

Thanks to everyone who posted. The general consensus seems to be that Maggie intended to use Adam for good (in her own twisted way) and that is what I was the most confused about.

[Crazy Flakes]

Yep, I'm going with the super soldier theory.

But my question is, what was she going to do with the super soldiers? I mean, I always assumed she only went after demons so that she could collect their parts in order to create her soldiers. If she had built them and collected the demon parts she needed, would they have gone after demons to fulfill their assumed purpose (to help humans) or would she have created an evil, apocalysey army?

[Dlou444]

I was thinking Super Soldier to use against other humans. Like to send to Iraq.
Adam SEEMED to think he was doing her will by making MORE! That meant killing more people and demons.

[palabravampiress]

Yep, I'm going with the super soldier theory.

But my question is, what was she going to do with the super soldiers? I mean, I always assumed she only went after demons so that she could collect their parts in order to create her soldiers. If she had built them and collected the demon parts she needed, would they have gone after demons to fulfill their assumed purpose (to help humans) or would she have created an evil, apocalysey army?

I think her intentions were basically good. They weren't just stealing demon parts. They were also trying to modify demon behavior so as to render them harmless to humans. I think the super soldiers were intended to neutralize the demon threat, but yes, I also think they were intended to gain an advantage in regular human warfare, as well.

Like so many scientific advancements or inquiries, Maggie Walsh's inventions and discoveries were morally ambiguous and potentially dangerous. Certainly, they could be used for good. Taming demons like Spike and amping up soldiers like Riley (in order to better defend the country -- from demons or humans as well as to risk the lives of fewer soldiers) are more or less noble causes, at least in theory. In practice, though, there were unforeseen variables and ethical issues that cropped up. This is what always happens with science. New discoveries and innovations shake things up as people struggle to deal with the fallout.

The Initiative was really sort of a neat exploration of science run amok, even if it was a little too obviously derived from and based upon Frankenstein. It asks a lot of neat questions, many of which we struggle with currently with regard to issues like stem cell research, cloning, animal testing, etc. How far is too far? What are the boundaries between humans and demons (or, in real life, humans and animals)? What should the ethical treatments of demons entail? Where is the line between human intelligence, animal intelligence, and artificial intelligence? Are we too reliant upon technology? Etc. Etc. It didn't really provide any hard answers, but it did explore the "other" side of a lot of issues. For example, it was neat to see Spike all pathetic and neutered and to question -- from the predator's side -- whether or not it was ethical to defang a predator.

I think Maggie's story is ultimately one of hubris. Her intentions began as noble. Eventually, though, she got so caught up in what she could do that she forgot to think about what she should do. She forgot to think of her subjects and subordinates as people first and as the amazing bits and pieces that make up the human machine second. She forgot that people are more than just the sum of their parts, and she didn't realize that that applies even if they're demons (like Spike, Oz, and even Adam). There's a variable there -- one that science has yet to classify or quantify -- that results in free will. Call it the soul or humanity or maybe something even less grand like chance or circumstance or maybe even some mystical force, but there is a gray area there that can't be named or explained with facts, and that's what Maggie missed out on. That's why it's so fitting that she met her end at the hands of her own creation and why she, herself, became reanimated as part of an unethical experiment who could move and act and operate, but lacked that certain spark that made her Maggie... that made her alive. There was a certain poetic justice to it. In the end, Maggie became the experiment instead of the scientist.

[JollyApe]

Well, Adam himself said that he was created to kill (Who Are You), so I would assume that was his purpose.

Him and all other chippyed soldiers were created as weapons. The Initiative was about "serve and protect", but the research Maggie did was about perfecting their weapon in that struggle. A "man-made" Slayer.

[fly on the wall]

I got the feeling that the Initiative was there to make ubersoldiers.
They already knew how to neuter demons and make them harmless (i.e. Spike's chip). I think the whole purpose of the chips-in-demons project was so that the demons would help them kill more demons to create the ubersoldiers.
But yeah, pretty much everything's already been said. :)

[Fake Shemp]

i was thinking super soldier in the x-files sorta been done in many sci-fi books sort of way... the way they actually are and have tried in real life

[Lindsey McDonald]

Personaly, I think the reasoning as to why she did it came second. It was the how that she was obsessed with. I'm sure the Initiative itself would have been happy to have Adam on board, but I think for Walsh it was more a pet project. She wanted to see how far she could take it - like Pal said, she was pushing the boundaries. She didn't need a reason other than that she could, and the Initiative could take it from there.

[Fake Shemp]

i saw her as Dr. Frankenstein

[Violette]

I think they were trying to build an army of super soldiers and monster/human/robot hybrids to either:
1) For the country's national defence
2) To take over the world? (the evil theory)
3) To control the underworld and control demons, vampires, creatures of the dark
4) To make it a safer place for humans -- maybe they aimed to make the ubersoldiers protective of the human civilization, or so that they're under control & won't harm human beings (like with Spike's chip)
5) Simply just to experiment with science and see how far it can go

Perhaps a combination of some of the above?

[scobro]

The Initiative and its purpose was discussed (however briefly) in the Angel episode Why We Fight

[Airam]

So you think Adam was a human soldier who died while being experimented on or serving the Initiative and that's why he considers Riley a "brother"? I never picked up on that.

Wait a second... Adam was actually Maggie's real son before he died and she started mixing him with demon parts and such right? Thats one of the reasons I always hated Maggie so hardcore, that she could actually defile her own son that way. I didn't make this up right.... it always seemed that way to me. Were we never given a clear background between Maggie and Adam? I'm not the hugest S4 fan so maybe its just what seemed logical to me? Oh god, someone help me ou here I'm getting a headache from the second guessing....