After the Fall # 11

[andrewcutter]

so i just got the new issue and i am very please. the parts with angel and gunn were great and i love to read what angel was thinking. the fight at the end was done pretty well. The issue itself set up for what hopes to be a good issue 12.

as for the at, i liked it...... i mean gwen look like a man but other than that i thought the art was far better than that in the last issue.

on a whole i love this issue

i will have a video review uploaded for this issue soon. the link is below

[Allycat]

Not the best issue so far. The Gunn/Angel stuff was pretty good, but I'm not sure I followed what was going on with Gwen at the end. I think Gwen has been with Gunn all along... he said "I found her first" and the first person that comes to mind is of course Fred, but we know Spike found her first. So... is Gwen evil?

[Tranquillity]

Yeah I found this one a little hard to follow too -I enjoyed it, I just had to read it a number of times to fully understand (not that i mind). Yes, I think Gwen is double crossing the team and electric shocking the Dragon, Connor and/or Spike. I feel kinda sorry for Gunn - he is freaking crazy. Angel looks to be in a bad way - broken legs, broken back and no magic to save him. How are they going to save him? Or is he going to die? There is an open grave on the next cover. Is Spike going to have to sire him - but wouldn't that mean Angelus rather than Angel and wouldn't Angel prefer to die rather than be a vampire again. Sorry, just speculating here....

[Clem Rocks]

This was a pretty good issue imo, the most poorly written so far though. I know there isn't much room for stuff in a comic but surely they could have but some character emotion in?

Fred: See's her ex bf, a man she loves and cares deeply about, standing on a roof with vampires, after her alterego said he was the most powerful thing in hell, and her reaction is "Isn't this exciting?" =|

Gunn: See's that his ex gf , a woman he loved and cared deeply for, that died because of him, is still alive in some way and he completely ignores her?

Angel: He's in a building full of vamps, knows he might have to end up killing Gunn, knows that they can kill him easily considering he's mortal now, and he just ignores the fact that there's Slayer's downstairs?

Also, Gunn's a vamp now, vamps have extremely powerful sense of smell, why didn't he smell Angel and everyone else coming?

And i don't know if this has been figured out yet, but shouldn't Angel still be immortal? Eve said that being liason to the Senior Partners means immortality, she signed that over to Hamilton and Angel realised that the only way to kill Hamilton was to absorb all his powers, surely that means that Angel has Hamilton's immortality?

And if that demon really was having visions from the PTB, how did he get them without snogging Angel?

Now, onto the "i found her first" thing, like everyone else, i thought Fred, and i still do, it could explain why neither are shocked to see each other. If Angel turned the Dragon at the start of the fight, and Gunn was turned while Angel was turning the dragon, and Spike found Fred when LA went to hell, isn't there enough time between Vampire Gunn waking up and Spike finding Fred for Gunn to find Fred and send her to Spike?

And did anyone else find that Angelus reference out of place? I'm taking it to mean that it's a hint confirming i'm right about Angelus being Twilight :)

Now, after reading this issue, i can say i don't care what happens to Angel, i don't care what happens to Gunn, i don't care what happens with Conner and Gwen, all i care about, is finding out what Angel named that dragon! Methinks he named it Barry

[Angel's vision]

I think "I found her first could be Gwen, and she was going all electro on everyone, maybe Gunn has done something to her and no-one knows about it, he did speak of powers.

I don't think Angel is gonna die as such, I think there is a twist to it. I also think Twilight is Frays brother.

[Allycat]

This was a pretty good issue imo, the most poorly written so far though. I know there isn't much room for stuff in a comic but surely they could have but some character emotion in?

Although I don't think this issue is the greatest yet either, I'm not quite as upset as you are... I disagree with some of the points you raised though.

Fred: See's her ex bf, a man she loves and cares deeply about, standing on a roof with vampires, after her alterego said he was the most powerful thing in hell, and her reaction is "Isn't this exciting?" =|

In every scene Fred has been in so far, she's shown a childlike naivety. I think that Fred's still very weak and sick. Her mind seems very fragile. I suppose we might find out more about this in later issues.

Gunn: See's that his ex gf , a woman he loved and cared deeply for, that died because of him, is still alive in some way and he completely ignores her?

I'm not sure he recognised her or even paid any attention to others; Angel had his undivided focus. Even if he did spot her... he had already seen her during Angel's fight against the Lords.

Angel: He's in a building full of vamps, knows he might have to end up killing Gunn, knows that they can kill him easily considering he's mortal now, and he just ignores the fact that there's Slayer's downstairs?

It was only a passing reference by Gunn and they were in a very important discussion... I think Angel was just focussed on other things. But I think that if there had been a thought balloon on that page, it would definitely have mentioned the Slayers.

Also, Gunn's a vamp now, vamps have extremely powerful sense of smell, why didn't he smell Angel and everyone else coming?

Their smell is very good, but not that they can smell something from miles away. They mostly can smell the lingering smell someone leaves somewhere they've been. Besides Angel and the others were coming in on a flying dragon. Their speed may have been that great that they were much faster than their smell. Furthermore they may have been flying on a different height, and since wind directions can differ on different heights, they might have been off-wind. Lastly, one could argue that the smell of brimstone masked Angel's. ^_^

And i don't know if this has been figured out yet, but shouldn't Angel still be immortal? Eve said that being liason to the Senior Partners means immortality, she signed that over to Hamilton and Angel realised that the only way to kill Hamilton was to absorb all his powers, surely that means that Angel has Hamilton's immortality?

I'm pretty sure it was said before that the effects of drinking Hamilton's blood only gave Angel a temporary strength-boost.

And if that demon really was having visions from the PTB, how did he get them without snogging Angel?

Doyle was far from the only person that was receiving visions from the PTB. And there may have been other methods of transmitting the vision from one person to another, especially for less-humanoid species. Lastly, Angel said himself that "This town is home to a thousands creatures, who hear voices, who see things." His visions were most likely not from the PTB.


Now, onto the "i found her first" thing, like everyone else, i thought Fred, and i still do, it could explain why neither are shocked to see each other. If Angel turned the Dragon at the start of the fight, and Gunn was turned while Angel was turning the dragon, and Spike found Fred when LA went to hell, isn't there enough time between Vampire Gunn waking up and Spike finding Fred for Gunn to find Fred and send her to Spike?

Actually, I suppose that is possible... but I doubt it.

[Clem Rocks]

All good points Alleycat, I'd forgot the Gunn would have seen Fred during that fight. I hadn't noticed Fred's mind being fragile though, maybe i should give my issues another read through.

I still think Angel would have stopped the discussion for atleast a few seconds to acknowledge the Slayers though. That's not something that's easily topped in importance by something else.


And you missed a few points: What do you thnk he's named the dragon and do you agree the Angelus reference came out of nowhere?

[Allycat]

All good points Allycat, I'd forgot the Gunn would have seen Fred during that fight. I hadn't noticed Fred's mind being fragile though, maybe i should give my issues another read through.

It's hard to explain, cause I can't quite put my finger on what's wrong with Fred. But like I said before, she seems very childlike, and simplistic in her thoughts. I definitely don't see her churning out complex math-formulas. Besides, some emotional states cause her to turn into Illyria. Meaning that we can only get to see some sides of Fred.


I still think Angel would have stopped the discussion for at least a few seconds to acknowledge the Slayers though. That's not something that's easily topped in importance by something else.

I do agree that a small if-only-passing reference would have been nice.


And you missed a few points: What do you thnk he's named the dragon

I think it's not going to have any importance... it's just important that he gave him a name, cause it shows us the kind of relationship they have.


and do you agree the Angelus reference came out of nowhere?

No... Angel lives to redeem himself for what Angelus did... so I guess he regularly thinks about what Angelus did, and how he did it.

[Clem Rocks]

I think it's not going to have any importance... it's just important that he gave him a name, cause it shows us the kind of relationship they have.

I know it wont be important, it's just the thing about After the Fall that i want to find out about the most XD