Spike's chip and Buffy

[Cangel]

Okay, so we all know that after Buffy got raised from the dead Spike's chip stopped working on her. Tara assumed that Buffy's DNA got slightly altered when being recreated, something like a light sunburn to her DNA. But did she know that for sure?
This thought crossed my mind a few days ago. Are we really sure this is why Spike could hit Buffy? I have another theory. Could it be love that lets the chip stop working? I mean, how long has it been that Spike before that last tried to seriously hurt Buffy? So we can't say for sure that the chip stopped working for her only after her resurrection.
The chip works through some impulses or something (never really fully got that). So does love. Okay maybe not exactly like that, but I do know that love has also something to do with your brain, hormones and stuff. So couldn't it be possible that when those things collide they create some kind of counterreaction?
What do you people think about that?

[white avenger]

Spike said in "Fool For Love" that unless his intention was to actually hurt Buffy (and we can assume anyone else) the chip wouldn't activate. Since he had no real intention of doing Buffy any sort of real harm by the time of "Smashed," that might have kept the chip inactive, which would tie in pretty well with BB's "love" theory.

[Kemy]

You mean maybe the Chemo-receptors on the Chip read the hormone pattern of Spike's 'domestic abuse' differently from the more primitive 'hunt and kill' anger?

The Initiative probably only designed them thinking Vampires were behaviourly similar to feral animals and only gave it enough receptors to recognise the hormones associated with aggression, not realising other emotional states would create confusion in the Chip and cause it to misfire.

Spike didn't see what he did as wrong, didn't see it as attacking her the same way he did with others, so its possible that in feeling differently like that night in "Fool for Love" the Chip didn't read the same reaction hence no zapping.

Then of course along comes the Soul, strong mixed emotions that probably damaged the Chip's processors trying to recognise signals from a multitude of chemicals etc

[Dlou444]

That's always been my theory from the first time I saw it. That he just didn't feel any intent of actual harm, which is why it didn't hurt.
I know when I fight with my husband (of course we don't come to knock out blows like Buffy and Spike) I get mad, but there is never any intention to HURT him in any way.

But, I think that was just a theory that Spike didn't want to admit because it would mean he was all soft while she was rejecting him and one Buff didn't want to accept because it would mean Spike wasn't really this heartless killer that she wanted to see him as.

[Dlou444]

Five by Five agrees: "We don't come to knock out blows". With that sig? Yeah right!

I'm not allowed near the frying pans or any object smaller than the fridge. It helps keep things friendly! :D

[caitaintdead]

Ooh, this is interesting, I do like it a lot. I think I might watch season 5 and see what I see while bearing this in mind. The only other times I can remember Spikes chip not working is when Drusilla's with him at The Bronze in Crush (or did it not work because Drusilla had already killed the girl?) and the other time is in Sleeper and surrounding episodes.
I wonder if there are clues there. I guess both times it involved love (his love for his mother and his love for Dru)

Edit:

Hmm... Should think before I type. Thanks.

[littlewilly]

Is this Smashed your talking about when Spikes hitting Buffy?
I think there was nothing wrong with the chip. His intent was to hurt Buffy(which happens when you hit them)
It had to be something wrong with her.

[Dlou444]

Is this Smashed your talking about when Spikes hitting Buffy?
I think there was nothing wrong with the chip. His intent was to hurt Buffy(which happens when you hit them)
It had to be something wrong with her.

*KONK* didn't you read my post?

True, when you hit people you hurt them, I'll give you that one.
Except, Buffy and Spike (even Buffy and Angel or Riley) were always slightly more violent than your normal Sunday Morning stroll couple.
Which is why I equated it to fighting. Normally, when you're screaming at someone (and invisioning whacking them with the broom) you're not thinking lovey bunny squishy feelings either.
But, if you really love them, you have no intention of actually hurting them....just winning the fight. (Or in some cases, getting your point heard.)
I think once he really fell in love with her, all his intent to do any real harm was gone. He might get mad, but that doesn't mean he wanted to kill her like he used to. And the chip was all about intent. Once he loved her, his intent was never to actually hurt her. Just like he couldn't shoot her when she was crying about her Mom.

[Kana]

I have to agree with littlewilly. I think the concept of not really wanting to hurt the one you love is too simplistic, and probably not how Spike thinks anyway. Even if there were the case, I don't believe the chip is that discriminating. If you hit someone with reasonable force, you hurt them. That's all the chip cares about, it doesn't care about romantic history or why you are hitting them.

Love and violence have probably got mixed up in Spike's brain since being 'brought up' by Angelus and Dru and lest we forget he was happy to torture Dru fo love as well, one assumes, he intended her harm for the 'right reasons'. In any respect, I think Spike could have had intent to hurt Buffy as well as love her at this stage, for me Tara's explanation would suffice.

[Dlou444]

True, and honestly the show says it's something else.

But, this was my first theory.
And it goes more along the lines of say, sparring. When you're playing "rough" with someone, you could still hurt them but have no intention of doing so. Surely the chip would let Spike "train" with Buffy like Riley would. Because there was no intent to hurt.
So, with that being the case, Spike knows that they can go a few rounds without Buffy ever really getting "hurt".
The Chip was designed to turn a thing that kills randomly into something that can't. I don't believe he had any intent to kill her or even break her arm after mid-season 5. Certainly not by S6 after he mourned her all summer.
And with the intent being gone to actually hurt her in any way, I think it's an iffy balance (kinda like the chicken or the egg) at that point.

[Blondie Bear]

Besides, in "Smashed," right before the steaminess ensues, Spike says, "I wasn't going to hurt you! . . . Much." So obviously the intent to hurt was there, regardless of what other feelings might have been boiling around in that bleached cranium.

[white avenger]

As to whether it was Spike's intention or not to actually hurt Buffy, it might be well to remember that Buffy and Spike were so evenly matched in fighting skills that the only way that he could have held back and not gotten his clock cleaned would have been if Buffy held back just about the same. In other words, neither one of them really wanted to do the other any real lasting harm.

[Buffanator]

I always thought that maybe that was the BEGINNING of the chip going all wonky in Spike's head. Cause you know, in S-7, it started causing him major pain ...& they discovered that it was malfunctioning, & of course Buffy had the Initiative take it out.

And yeah sure, in S-6, he could "hit" Buffy but I see it as his intention wasn't to kill her or cause her major harm - after all, the chip didn't go off during the A/R scene, which leads me to believe that he didn't intend to harm her then, either.

[InsaneMystic]

And yeah sure, in S-6, he could "hit" Buffy but I see it as his intention wasn't to kill her or cause her major harm - after all, the chip didn't go off during the A/R scene, which leads me to believe that he didn't intend to harm her then, either.
To think that there "was no harm intended" in a scene like the one in "Seeing Red" is a statement that makes me utterly uncomfortable. There's probably "no harm intended" in at least half the rapes that happen in the world, if you listen to the rapists' rants of self-justification. :mad:

No, I take that scene as proof Buffy was changed in whatever way by her resurrection. I don't think Spike could have done that to any other non-demonic female on this planet without getting the brain jolts.

[scobro]

Well, the one scene in which Spike has a gun, he spins around the room, the gun lands on Xander and the chip goes off. Spike bemoans, 'bloody hell, damn thing goes off even when I just point a gun' (or words to that effect) So he had no intent on harming Xander, his intent was not to shoot him, only point the gun in his direction.

I thought someone explained that when Buffy come back her DNA was jumbled alittle, just enough to throw off the chip but not that she was part grr-argh

[Kemy]

The Chip isn't big enough or sophisticated enough to have scanners or the like. It goes by the chemical triggers etc in Spikes brain.

I think he has to know its a Demon he's hitting, or else how does the Chip know? don't forget its still just 1999/2000 Human technology and very small.

Theres probably some difference in what the Vampire feels when hitting a Human and a Demon. If Spike was expecting to hit Buffy who he for all intents and purposes would have seen as Human, the Chip would still have read him hitting a Human, even if she was different now. He was surprised when it didn't go off, he still expecting to be hitting a person.

So there has to be another explanation than Buffy being 'all different' since she still looked Human.

[Kana]

The Chip isn't big enough or sophisticated enough to have scanners or the like. It goes by the chemical triggers etc in Spikes brain.

I think he has to know its a Demon he's hitting, or else how does the Chip know? don't forget its still just 1999/2000 Human technology and very small.

Theres probably some difference in what the Vampire feels when hitting a Human and a Demon. If Spike was expecting to hit Buffy who he for all intents and purposes would have seen as Human, the Chip would still have read him hitting a Human, even if she was different now. He was surprised when it didn't go off, he still expecting to be hitting a person.

So there has to be another explanation than Buffy being 'all different' since she still looked Human.


I believe the chip works off Spike's senses whether he knows it on a conscious level or not. It's like when he goes after the human muggers and gets the ouchies: He 'sensed' they were human but he didn't process it on a conscious level.

With Buffy he sensed something subtly different enough and his chip didn't go off but consciously Spike was like 'huh'?

[Kemy]

Yes I could see that happening, well not 'see' in the looking into squishy brain and watching the Chip not go zap way, but the Vampire senses picking up on it but the more Human ones didn't, Chip didn't fire.

William: Human!
Vampire: Demon!
[Chip]: Whut?

[Dlou444]

I'm gonna have to rewatch Fool For Love because he does something in there to Buffy but the chip doesn't go off and he says it's because he didn't intend to hurt her.

Xander, or other humans, even when he clocks Tara in the nose to prove she's not a demon, I don't think he feels that way about. He may not exactly WANT to hurt them, but without the love being there that he has for Buffy, it makes it different. I'm sure he'd have NO problem knocking off Xander if he felt he was a threat to Buffy. Where I don't think he'd kill Buffy even if she was trying to stake him.

[Blondie Bear]

^ In "Fool for Love" he's swinging at her (never connecting), and she says, "That doesn't hurt?" and he replies, "I knew I couldn't touch you. If there's no intent to hurt you, the chip never fires" (not an exact quote, but close).

[Buffanator]

Excellent point Blondie Bear -

here's the exact quote(s):

SPIKE Lesson the second: ask the right questions. You want to know how I beat 'em?

***Buffy releases him and steps back.

SPIKE The question isn't "How'd I win?". The question is "Why'd they lose?".

BUFFY What's the difference?

***Spike lunges at her, the pool cue aimed at her throat. Spike stops it inches from her skin. Buffy never even flinches.

SPIKE There's a big difference, love.

***Buffy kicks the cue from his hands.

BUFFY How'd you kill the second one?

SPIKE Hmm? A bit like this.

*** He sends a series of punches at her but Buffy easily ducks them all.

BUFFY That didn't hurt?

SPIKE I knew I couldn't touch you. If there's no intent to hurt you, then that chip they shoved up my brain never activates. If, on the other hand...

***Spike's face changes and he lunges at her but he's brought up short by a crippling brain seizure.

SPIKE See, now that hurt.

But I think we've all noticed a few inconsistencies regarding the chip from Seasons 4-7. However, I do still believe that when he could *hit/hurt* Buffy again, that's when the chip began it's disintegration & started to go all wonky... & then in S-7, it completely wanked out.