The Key?

[SamZie021]

Hi all i'm new on here and am currently re-watchin season 5, and i have been wondering why the monks made the key human?

As far as i can guess the key is needed to open glories world, and then once she enters the key can be destroyed and our world goes back to how it was, so if this is the case why not make the key something useless which the slayer would want to destroy!?

Ok I know that they wanted to bring in a sister, and kill Buffy but the key being human seems pointless to me! Has anyone thought about this? I may be wrong but has been bothering me for sometime!!

SamZie

[Blondie Bear]

Um . . . plot convenience? :D

Honestly, I'm not sure. It's a very good question.

Welcome to the Boards, by the way.

[Fake Shemp]

so she would blend into the world seamlessly (or almost) and the slayer, if she had family ties, would want to protect it for that reason not just a mystical ball of energy way.

[VisionGuy]

They should have made the key something else. Why make it human and put it through all the pain and suffering of having Glory after it?

[The Kinslayer]

The should have made it a real key and given it to a key collector or hide it under a rock. ;) Or just about anything what wouldn´t be alive. Of course it´s only for the story. Who needs logic?

[Fake Shemp]

dont need it on a tv show when you're supposed to give a damn.... would i have been bothered if it was literally a key? well maybe ;)

[white avenger]

Hi all i'm new on here and am currently re-watchin season 5, and i have been wondering why the monks made the key human?

As far as i can guess the key is needed to open glories world, and then once she enters the key can be destroyed and our world goes back to how it was, so if this is the case why not make the key something useless which the slayer would want to destroy!?

Ok I know that they wanted to bring in a sister, and kill Buffy but the key being human seems pointless to me! Has anyone thought about this? I may be wrong but has been bothering me for sometime!!

SamZie



According to General Iron Pants of the Knights of Byzantium, when Glory returned to her home dimension, it wasn't like opening a door that could be closed again, it was more like bashing through the dimensional wall, creating a passage that could never be reclosed, and not just between our dimension and hers, but through all of the other dimensions, effectively creating a universe of Chaos. Sort of what Angel managed to do in LA, but on an infinitely larger scale.

Beyond that, Dawn was probably just introduced to appeal to the younger viewers, since Buffy and her friends had grown so old over the past 3 years.

[Fake Shemp]

yes im sure buffy fans know it was to break down all dimensional barriers.... but the point is why a sister?

[Lyri]

The Monks gave the Key to the Slayer with the intent that the Slayer protect the Key with her life. Would Buffy have been so protective of the Key if it had been a bicycle pump? They made the Key into Dawn, into Buffy's sister, so that they could be sure that Buffy would do everything in her power to keep Dawn safe. The Monks didn't want the Key to be used, hense their hiding it.

[Joyce Summers]

Didn't the monks wish to harness the power of the Key for Good? But they were interrupted by Glory? I thought that always intended to continue with their work but until they could they needed to keep it safe and to ensure that Buffy WOULD keep it safe and not just destroy it for the good of the world/convenience, they made it instead someone she loved and would protect with her life until they escaped Glory and were able to continue with their work.

If that is indeed the case, then that means at some point they would have wanted to revert Dawn to her original green energy state which I don't think Buffy would have been happy or agree-y about. Either the monks or the writers didn't think this through....haha

[The Kinslayer]

Would Buffy have been so protective of the Key if it had been a bicycle pump?
Of course not. The question is more like, would she needed to protect it with her life if the monks had made the key a nail and nailed it to the wall hidden under Buffys bed? ;) Then Glory and her minions had to both find it´s location (would the "snake" really have looked under the bed?) and get past Buffy to get it.

So it pretty much comes down to: Not well protected and well hidden or well protected and in plain sight? I like Dawn so I´m not minding the solution. But is it logic?

[littlewilly]

The most logical thing i think, would be make it a rock, throw it to bottom of ocean, almost impossible to find.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Of course not. The question is more like, would she needed to protect it with her life if the monks had made the key a nail and nailed it to the wall hidden under Buffys bed? ;) Then Glory and her minions had to both find it´s location (would the "snake" really have looked under the bed?) and get past Buffy to get it.

So it pretty much comes down to: Not well protected and well hidden or well protected and in plain sight? I like Dawn so I´m not minding the solution. But is it logic?

Did they ever actually say that the Key could become an inanimate object? Could it be that since it was so full of energy, it had to made into a living being. In that case, it would be vital to make it precious to a Champion like the Slayer, cause you can't rely on a living thing to stay hidden, especially if you're going to be killed and can't watch it yourself.

[Blondie Bear]

^ Glory seems to think it could have been made into an inanimate object. And she seems to know a lot about the Key. So it's possible.

[littlewilly]

I think it was said they could make the key anything.

[Lyri]

Wasn't the ritual to open the Gateways blood? To quote Giles: "The blood flows, the gates will open. The gates will close when it flows no more. When Dawn is dead."

So obviously whoever came up with the ritual in the first place knew that the Key have to be in human form for the Gateways to open. Glory didn't since she was surprised to find out that the Key was a person.

[Lindsey McDonald]

^ Glory seems to think it could have been made into an inanimate object. And she seems to know a lot about the Key. So it's possible.

But did Glory really know all that much about the key? She'd only seen a glimpse of it once, and she knew it was smooshy green energy. That's not much more than anyone else knew. She knew what it did, but I didn't get the impression that she knew all that much more.

But then, I'm not trying to argue this as a theory, I'm merely raising a point. A single quote could quell it. However, I don't remember anyone with any kind of authority on the Key specifically stating that it could be made anything other than a living, breathing being. Why would the directions to stop the dimensions from opening specifically reference "blood"? How do you bleed a rock? I'm sure there's seperate instructions for if the Key is a green ball of energy, but why blood? Just a point.

[Blondie Bear]

Glory: Well... the last time I caught a peep ... it was a bright green swirly shimmer. Really brought out the blue in my eyes. (annoyed) But then those sneaky little Monks pulled an abracadabra, so now it could look like anything. You see the predicament I'm in.

So she's seen it more than once, and at least believes that it could have been put into any form.

[Lindsey McDonald]

So she's seen it more than once, and at least believes that it could have been put into any form.

Heh...my memory aint being all that freindly tonight. Although, she did always assume it to be a person, so maybe the "anything" was an exaggeration. Meh, I dunno anymore.

[Joyce Summers]

I suppose we could consider the Key able to be anything if the blood mentioned in the details for the ritual was in fact metaphorical- meaning the life/essence/source of whatever it is. So if it was a rock, the stone would have to be broken for the gate to open, if it was a peach erm...peach juice would flow, but since Dawn was human the metaphorical blood was literal blood too?

Okay, I'm stretching...but I sound like I'm doing it viably so haha.

[littlewilly]

Its not just Glory either that thinks the key could have been anything, the leader of the Knights of Benxzsojkdj was also suprised and annoyed that the key was made human. It was implied throughout s5 it could have been anything.
But if they need blood, they shouldve made it a fish or pigeon.

[caitaintdead]

I think it seems very strange that the monks wanted to save the energy. Perhaps Joyce is correct when she says that they weren't finished with their work on the energy and perhaps they were going to try and harness it for good, because I cannot see any reason why with so much power that they can create Dawn and all the memories associated with her, why they wouldn't just make it disappear.

Maybe the writing team should have explored more why Dawn was here in season 6 instead of being destroyed, her pure energy could have been a whole new story line where Dawn actually feels comfortable about herself being the key, the monks obviously saved her for some reason... Why?

Maybe they still will come back to claim her?

[SamZie021]

I'm still baffled at to why Dawn was created or why they did not js create a human tht mean nothing to the world so noone would care about killing it!? I caitaintdead maybe the team should have explored more, and mayb the writers should have explained better! I would say it seems rushed but in s4 when faith is having those dreams with buffy she does refer to little sis arriving so they knew well ahead that they were going to put her into the show!!

Maybe I'm just too much of a realist when it comes to watching shows!

But I do believe that the key could have been anything, and maybe the monks did want to do more with the key! I'm not sure!! :(

[Lindsey McDonald]

The key was very powerful, even if it was entirely passive. I think it's entirely possible that the Monks worshipped it, in contrast to the scabby little Glory worshipers. That's why they didn't want it simply destroyed.

[SamZie021]

I know this is a little off topic kind of off topic, but I was always wondering why the writers decided to kill off Joyce, but I have just thought maybe she was killed off so that when it came to The Gift Buffy would be more determined to save Dawn as she was the only family that she had left!? Has anyone thought this?!

[littlewilly]

Kristine Sutherland actually wanted to leave the show after season 4, i cant remember why though, and Joss asked her to come back for one more season because he was already planning to kill her off, and she agreed. So it was the actresses choice first.

[LifeIsJustThis]

Hi all i'm new on here and am currently re-watchin season 5, and i have been wondering why the monks made the key human?

As far as i can guess the key is needed to open glories world, and then once she enters the key can be destroyed and our world goes back to how it was, so if this is the case why not make the key something useless which the slayer would want to destroy!?

Ok I know that they wanted to bring in a sister, and kill Buffy but the key being human seems pointless to me! Has anyone thought about this? I may be wrong but has been bothering me for sometime!!

SamZie
Well, I know that the monks wanted to make the key something Buffy would protect with her life. What else would you protect with your life other then your family? So they made a sister for her.

But, maybe they thought deep down, that if it came to it, Buffy would sacrifice Dawn to save the world, because she would have no choice. I don't think glory imagined that Buffy would jump herself.

I think that one the other hell is opened, Glory can go in, but I don't think Buffy's world goes back to being the same. That was the whole idea. The world turns to hell, the deminsions collide, hell on earth, yada yada. That's why Giles was freaking out about it so much.

Edit:

Hi all i'm new on here and am currently re-watchin season 5, and i have been wondering why the monks made the key human?

As far as i can guess the key is needed to open glories world, and then once she enters the key can be destroyed and our world goes back to how it was, so if this is the case why not make the key something useless which the slayer would want to destroy!?

Ok I know that they wanted to bring in a sister, and kill Buffy but the key being human seems pointless to me! Has anyone thought about this? I may be wrong but has been bothering me for sometime!!

SamZie

According to General Iron Pants of the Knights of Byzantium, when Glory returned to her home dimension, it wasn't like opening a door that could be closed again, it was more like bashing through the dimensional wall, creating a passage that could never be reclosed, and not just between our dimension and hers, but through all of the other dimensions, effectively creating a universe of Chaos. Sort of what Angel managed to do in LA, but on an infinitely larger scale.

Beyond that, Dawn was probably just introduced to appeal to the younger viewers, since Buffy and her friends had grown so old over the past 3 years.
Well said. That's what I meant to say :)

[fly on the wall]

Let's assume that the key could be made into anything (not just a living form, which I'm not too sure of, but for argument's sake..). If it were a grain of sand in the desert, there's a chance Glory could find it. If she discovered that the people she brain-sucks could lead her to the key, she could pretty much find it anywhere...it might take awhile, but she is a god with a lot of scabby minions...a rock in the ocean could wash up on shore, the snake could have sensed the key had it been a nail under Buffy's bed...no matter how slim the chances of Glory finding a random object are, there's still a CHANCE.
So, they made the Key a person, to ensure that if Glory DID find it, Buffy would defend it with her life.

What I don't get is, Buffy wasn't really a match for a god. Glory wiped the floor with her time and time again, easily. Surely the monks could have predicted that a Slayer vs. a god wasn't a fair match, and that Glory would win?

Or maybe they knew all along what would happen, and they made the Key into Dawn so that Buffy would give her life to close the portal and save the world...hmmm. That makes sense, actually. They had to fashion the Key out of blood, Buffy's blood...so maybe they knew that if the blood started to flow and the dimensions started opening up, Buffy would give her life and save the world. Maybe they knew Buffy was destined to fail, but by failing, she would actually be defeating Glory...Interesting.

I'll stop ranting now. XP

[caitaintdead]

Or maybe they knew all along what would happen, and they made the Key into Dawn so that Buffy would give her life to close the portal and save the world...hmmm. That makes sense, actually. They had to fashion the Key out of blood, Buffy's blood...so maybe they knew that if the blood started to flow and the dimensions started opening up, Buffy would give her life and save the world. Maybe they knew Buffy was destined to fail, but by failing, she would actually be defeating Glory...Interesting.

I'll stop ranting now. XP

I actually really like this theory. I know there's no quotes to prove this theory, but there are also no quotes to disprove this theory. It makes a lot of sense that the monks would be aware of what would happen. We know that the monks have a huge amount of power and foresight so you would think that they would be able to predict what was going to happen (or at the least, know to a degree if what they were doing was right).

When Buffy speaks to the First Slayer she is told that death is her gift, so the spirit world is already aware that Buffy will die. I think it would be nice to think that maybe everything was planned out from the start.

[fly on the wall]

^ The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

[littlewilly]

Let's assume that the key could be made into anything (not just a living form, which I'm not too sure of, but for argument's sake..). If it were a grain of sand in the desert, there's a chance Glory could find it. If she discovered that the people she brain-sucks could lead her to the key, she could pretty much find it anywhere...it might take awhile, but she is a god with a lot of scabby minions...a rock in the ocean could wash up on shore, the snake could have sensed the key had it been a nail under Buffy's bed...no matter how slim the chances of Glory finding a random object are, there's still a CHANCE

But Glory could only perform the ritual at a specific time. If its a grain of sand, and it took her a year to find it, that would still be too late.

[Dlou444]

Ever wonder how when Giles says he read the scrolls that Spike and Xander find at that weird tail-guy's house he says all this stuff about how Glory's going to do this "blood letting" and how it only stops when the "blood stops" and the only way is to kill Dawn.......
Why do the scrolls say that if the key used to be a ball of energy?
Not that I've tried it, but I would imagine a ritual blood letting is hard to do on a ball of energy. Think they're magicallly all knowing things that he read? Or perhaps Giles was just taking huge liberties and paraphrasing? I mean, maybe if Giles was just assuming what it meant, he was all wrong. Maybe all Dawn needed was a tourniquet!

[caitaintdead]

I karmafied you last Dlou so I'll just post - I always though the exact same thing about Buffy jumping! Maybe Dawn just needed to stop bleeding and the gift of death was actually that Buffy should have killed Ben.

[littlewilly]

That would have been much better if the death thing was for Benjamin. I dont mind Buffy dying too much coz you know she returns but if that was the last season that wouldve been a terrible end.

[fly on the wall]

But Glory could only perform the ritual at a specific time. If its a grain of sand, and it took her a year to find it, that would still be too late.

But there was still a CHANCE she'd find it within the right time, right?

Anyways, I like my other theory. The monks-knew-what-was-going-to-happen-from-the-start theory. They knew Glory would find the Key, they knew she'd use the Key, so they made it into Buffy's sister (from Buffy's blood) knowing that in the case of a pending apocalypse, Buffy would give her life and save the world (and her sister). And that would work because it was Buffy's blood, too.

But the whole thing where it "stops when the blood flows no more" confused me on a different level...It always seemed like BOTH Dawn and Buffy would have to jump into the portal and die. Since that would technically be ALL of the Summers blood..

[SamZie021]

But the whole thing where it "stops when the blood flows no more" confused me on a different level...It always seemed like BOTH Dawn and Buffy would have to jump into the portal and die. Since that would technically be ALL of the Summers blood..

Umm that is interesting!! I think the key and everything should have been explained more in season 5 or 6 just clarify things for the audience because it all seems misty and hazy to me!

[littlewilly]

Remember though, the scrolls and many other old books and prophecys are tricky things, they never tell the full story, and can be very vague.
The blood thing could have been metaphorical or if its literal then it might not have told the exact truth.

[Dlou444]

Yeah, blood=life....but so does Kidney functions and digestion. I could have just meant that once her dinner was digested that the portal would close.

I think they needed to look into this more before Buffy threw herself off the tower. Of all the times to be slacking on research mode! GEEZ!