If "Angel" hadn't lasted...

BuffyElevated

Scooby
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Sineya
...past Season 2, how do you think Angel and Cordelia would have fit into the BtVS world? If the show had lasted through Season 2, this would have meant Angel and Cordelia (and Wesley, possibly) coming back to Sunnydale in Season 5 of BtVS. How do you think this might have worked?
 
I don't think it would of worked, at least not for Cordelia. She had changed too much in season 1 with the responsiblilty of the visions. She had become more mature than the others who were in college, she also had to work. How would she be able to afford to live in Sunnydale? I doubt that Angel would relocate the business there so she and Wesley, if he returned, would need to find jobs.
 
Personally, I don't think it would have worked. Buffy and Angel's worlds are completely seperate and it would cause a lot of problems if those worlds were brought together again. Also, a lot of the things that happened in Angel wouldn't have happened. Fred would also still be in a hell dimension, and that would be rubbish. No Cangel, and no Spangelness in season 5 for that matter! I don't think Spike/Angel would end up becoming close(ish) if Buffy was hanging around.

I'm glad Angel lasted, and I'm glad those worlds were kept seperate to blossom apart.
 
Okay first, I'm really glad Angel lasted beyond two seasons.

Second. I totally think it would have worked for Angel and Cordy to return. I really can't see how the changes to their personalities or their growth would have gotten in the way of that. The opposite, I think it would have made them fit even better in with the Scoobies and all going on in Sunnydale. And what's more I think their presence would have enriched the Scoobies and the plotlines.

(s6 could certainly have benefited from some Cordelia!)

So hadn't Angel lasted I would have loved, loved to see them both return to the fold.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
[No message]
Tome
Tome
Totally agree with you T
O
OhWow
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NY State of Mind
NY State of Mind
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Kean
Kean
Preach sister!
If Angel had returned, I highly doubt Buffy (the character) would have had the growth I love so much. Buffy's character in season 7 (plus Spike season 7) is who I want to "grow up" to be. If Ats hadn't lasted, I'm sure the writers could have worked Angel and Cordy into the story, but in my opinion, it would have suffered. I know a lot of people hate them, but the last two seasons are my favorites. Angel and Cordy would have "ruined" that.
 
Had it been after season2/buffy 5, I think it might of worked. As season 6 was darker and I think that the Angel cast would have fitted in better. There was also less characters in season 6 and an easier way of re-introducing the Angel cast (buffy's death)
 
Cordy was 18 years old in BtVS Season 3, then acted about 30 years old by AtS Season 4. People think she robbed the cradle when she was with Connor, but she was only 3 years older (verses a 240 year age difference when Angel got with Buffy)

I'm glad Angel lasted, and glad they never really come back to Sunnydale. I really didn't like it when they went from one series to the other, except Spike during Season 5 AtS.

When Willow comes back in AtS during Season 4, she's could be Cordy's kid sister. She looks so young compared to Cordy.

(Gotta run....I just got lightheaded remembering that episode and thinking about Frillow)
 
..past Season 2, how do you think Angel and Cordelia would have fit into the BtVS world? If the show had lasted through Season 2, this would have meant Angel and Cordelia (and Wesley, possibly) coming back to Sunnydale in Season 5 of BtVS. How do you think this might have worked?

Wesley: Hello there, Spike.

Cuts his head off.

Wesley: There, that's how one deals with such situations, people. Is that tea, Mr. Giles?

Seriously, the writers couldn't handle the characters they had in S6-7 properly, adding three more would only have made for more cases of peopel being relegated to being wallpapers like Xander or Dawn.
 
Cordy was 18 years old in BtVS Season 3, then acted about 30 years old by AtS Season 4. People think she robbed the cradle when she was with Connor, but she was only 3 years older (verses a 240 year age difference when Angel got with Buffy)

I'm glad Angel lasted, and glad they never really come back to Sunnydale. I really didn't like it when they went from one series to the other, except Spike during Season 5 AtS.

When Willow comes back in AtS during Season 4, she's could be Cordy's kid sister. She looks so young compared to Cordy.

(Gotta run....I just got lightheaded remembering that episode and thinking about Frillow)

LOL! Charisma was one of the older actors on the show, which is why her changes never weirded me out too much.
 
I just don't think that Angel would have been able to fit back into Buffy's show on a full time basis by Season 5, and that's not just because I support the Spuffy relationship. Angel had been off on his own for 2 years, running his own crew, not having to answer to anyone. Moving back to Sunnydale, aside from having to admit defeat out in the big, bad world, would have wound up putting him in conflict with Buffy eventually, simply because you can't have 2 bosses on the same job. Remember Angel telling Buffy to not come to "his town" and try to give orders? Well, I believe that the same thing would have eventually happened in Sunnydale, only in that case, it was Buffy's town, no longer his. (Actually, Sunnydale always was Buffy's, with Angel playing, at best, 3rd in command behind Buffy and Giles. That's the part that I just don't think that Angel could accept again)

And let us not forget that, by Season 5, Buffy and Riley were fairly stable in their relationship. Doomed to failure in the long run, certainly, but not at the beginning of Season 5. Angel would have only caused confusion and conflict there. I, like just about everyone else here, honestly feel that Buffy truly loved Angel, but I just can't see her as the type of girl who would dump her current boyfriend immediately after her old lover comes back to town. Eventually, almost certainly, she would have wound up doing it, but that would have led to an even more messy situation than Buffy's split with Riley actually was. It might have even come down to a conflict more violent that that one little scuffle that Riley and Angel did have, and, remember, Angel didn't have a chip to hold him back. If Riley provoked him enough, which he almost certainly would have done, Angel would have killed him. He might regret it after it happened, but, if given no other choice, he would have done it, Riley would have been just as dead, regardless.

And speaking of chips, how would the situation evolved between Angel and Spike? By Season 5, Buffy had pretty much accepted him as a member of her team, or at least an asset to her in her fight. How would Angel have adjusted to that? Would Buffy have defended Spike then as strongly as she did in Season 7? Probably not, but I think that she would still see Spike as relatively harmless to the human population of Sunnydale. On the other hand, there were two other Summers women who liked Spike and considered him a friend. I don't think that Joyce or Dawn would have been too thrilled to have Angel hurting him, and I don't think that it would have been a case of Spike hiding behind Joyce's skirt tails. Joyce would have known immediately what was going on. And what about Dawn? I wouldn't be surprised a bit to have seen her going after Angel with her mother's fire axe if she thought that he was trying to hurt her friend. Then there's Spike himself. Maybe he didn't have the self confidence at that point to realize that he could beat Angel, or at least hurt him badly, but he would definitely have fought, if only in self defense.

So, here's Buffy. Her old boyfriend has just come back to town, putting a strain on her relationship with boyfriend #2, Spike and Angel are going at each other like a pair of pit bulls, with her mother and sister are on Spike's side. Xander is standing off in a corner laughing his a** off, not caring which vampire wins, just as long as there is plenty of pain received by both. Anya is mad at him because he's watching Spike and Angel fight when he should be giving her multiple orgasms. Giles has polished the lenses completely out of his glasses. Willow and Tara are off somewhere giggling and cuddling, completely oblivious to the entire situation.

And then, just to make the Slayer's day complete, up pops Glory with sinister plans involving what she and everyone else believe is her spoiled, bratty, but still beloved, baby sister. Then there's the Buffy Bot, the Knights of Byzantium, and we are beginning to think that Ben might be somehow involved with Glory.

Now pile most, if not all, of that on top of Joyce dying, Hank being somewhere on the other side of the world, and Boyfriend #2, who, assuming that Angel hasn't actually twisted his head off, gives Buffy an ultimatum: "Give me a bigger part of your life, or I'm gonna run away to South America and marry the first Peace Corps worker that I can find. Hopefully, it'll be a woman, but with a name like Sam..."

Now, granted, the events of Season 5 didn't occur in precisely the order that I have listed them here, but they did all happen, and, assuming that Angel's returning to Sunnydale wouldn't have resulted in a completely different story line, by the time of Season 5's final episode, Buffy would have been begging Glory to let her jump off of that tower, just for the peace and quiet of the grave.
 
As much as I love the early seasons when they were all together, I don't think Angel, Cordelia, and Wes would have been able to fit in well in Sunnydale past BtVS Season 3. Cordelia was clearly a better fit in the more mature LA atmosphere, and Angel was always so dark and broody, which never really went too well with the lighter BtVS atmosphere.

I also agree with some that Buffy wouldn't have grown and changed as much as she did with Angel around; when she was with Angel she was so focused on him and everything about their relationship, and she didn't get to really come into herself until he left. While the Bangel dynamic is beautiful and dramatic, like most first loves are, I think it was better for Buffy that things went the way they did.

I did mention in the crossover thread that I would have liked Cordy to come back to Sunnydale at least once, so we could have gotten a really good scene with her, Xander, and Anya. 😉 But long-term, I definitely don't think they would have fit in well with the cast they had. And as others have also mentioned, especially in season 7, there were enough characters to worry about without adding 3 more.
 
Z
zobothehobo
[No message]
Like most people I agree that Angel and Cordelia wouldn't have fit back in BtVS. Cordelia was already such a different character, and having Buffy and Angel together would ruin what made their love so special and fun
 
I don't think so. I love all the characters dearly, but they had a separate show for a reason. They had separate villains, separate arcs, and at the end of the day, completely separate missions. I think they really needed that, or else they wouldn't have become the characters that I love so much now. LA was the perfect place for them. I have no idea what would happen if Angel hadn't lasted, but they'd probably come back, since I'm pretty sure Charisma and David had contracts that said they could come back to BtVS if it came to that. They'd probably only bring back the primary actors, so Wesley and Gunn would be gone.
 
I also agree with some that Buffy wouldn't have grown and changed as much as she did with Angel around; when she was with Angel she was so focused on him and everything about their relationship, and she didn't get to really come into herself until he left.

I've been thinking about this since this thread started, and I have come to the belief that, as much as Buffy and Angel loved her, if he had stayed in Sunnydale, or returned on any sort of permanent basis, he would have actually held her back in her development as a Slayer. Understandably, given Angel's feelings for her, plus the conviction that she was the path to his ultimate redemption (after all, he was pretty much drafted to "help...that Slayer" by an agent of the Powers That Be) he tended to be protective of her, to almost try and shield her from all of the pain and hardships that she had to face. As I said, this is perfectly understandable, considering Angel's feelings for Buffy. But I think that there came a point where Buffy began to lose track of just what the Slayer required, something that she had finally come to accept by Season 7. It's the mission that counts. That's sad, tragic even, but nonetheless as true then as it was for the First Slayer. Certainly, the Slayer can love, can even have friends and a family, but, ultimately, in the end, it all has to take second place. Protecting mankind from the things that go bump in the night is what the Slayer does. Ultimately, just as in the end of Season 2, it's the Slayer who makes the stand. Angel tried too often to take that stand for her. That was fine for awhile. He helped her survive the first few years, to gain the experience and skill that she needed to do her job. But she couldn't depend on him to do that forever, as much as he wanted it to be that way. That's why Angel had to go, and the reason that he needed to stay gone, except for brief visits, like when Joyce died, or he brought her the amulet.

FEEL FREE TO IGNORE THE REST OF THIS POST IF YOU SO DESIRE

(And while this doesn't have a whole lot to do with the actual subject of this thread, I just have to add that that was, to me, the biggest difference between Spike and Angel when they were with Buffy. Angel wanted to protect her, almost to the point of holding her back from her development as the Slayer.

Spike, on the other hand, once he began working with her, was the guy who always had her back, giving her the assurance that, if she ran into anything that she couldn't handle alone, he was right there, ready to help.)
 
Goby
Goby
I like the rest of the post and agree. I'm not ignoring it! :)
Kean
Kean
Do I have pull out my Angel was nothing supportive to Buffy as a Slayer post again?
Z
zobothehobo
I wish I could rep this post a thousand times over
Kean agrees: Do I have pull out my Angel was nothing supportive to Buffy as a Slayer post again?

*Nothing BUT supportive!

Bloody typos!
 
Kean agrees: Do I have pull out my Angel was nothing (but) supportive to Buffy as a Slayer post again?

A crutch is supportive, but if you depend on it too much for too long, you will never be able to walk without it. Certainly Angel was supportive. And for the amount of time that he was in Sunnydale, that was a good thing. He helped Buffy get through the worst part of learning her job. Without him, she would almost certainly never have survived that first 3 years. But there comes a point when Buffy has to do it all for herself. Otherwise, if the time ever came when she actually found herself alone, she would have a better than average chance of surviving.
 
Kean
Kean
You are very much underestimating our Slayer
If this were to happen I don't think it would work well.

I think Cordy was a strong female character and had matured a lot if she came on it would take away from the other woman like Anya and Buffy. Plus to me it would seem to Anya was to much "like" Cordy.

If Angel came back and I had to sit through two more seasons of the Bangel drama I would have hated Angel which would suck considering he is easily one of my favorites. Plus for Cangel fans it would be awkward and I don't know how Joss would handle it. Now if Spike and Cordy were to get a few scenes that I could work with 😛

Wesley would be the only one that I think could work. He didn't have to many ties to the scoobies so they could start fresh with him and make him work.

I am glad that Angel lasted because I like the shows separate and glad it didn't come to that point.

---------- Post added at 09:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

Fred would also still be in a hell dimension, and that would be rubbish. No Cangel, and no Spangelness in season 5 for that matter! I don't think Spike/Angel would end up becoming close(ish) if Buffy was hanging around.

I'm glad Angel lasted, and I'm glad those worlds were kept seperate to blossom apart.
Fred I would have missed Fred! Also your right about Spike/Angel. To be honest I find them in season five hilarious and I love them so much. I love Spuffy but I can't help it I have a soft spot for friendships even if they don't start off that way. I feel it showed a new side to both Spike and Angel that they could co-exist without it always being about Buffy. I mean it was sometimes but if those two and Buffy were together I think it would annoy me eventually. That is why in the end I am glad Buffy never showed up in season five I think it was for the best.
 
S
spikecakes
I completely agree. Especially about Buffy not appearing in season 5, Spangel needed to blossom. :p
I honestly don't wanna think about it, because it would seem so wrong, IMO. It's like, they left, for 2 years, then they're back. Everything has changed since then, and they're back into the story that isn't really theirs anymore. So my short answer would be, bad.....
 
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
I agree - would have been very awkward.
(And while this doesn't have a whole lot to do with the actual subject of this thread, I just have to add that that was, to me, the biggest difference between Spike and Angel when they were with Buffy. Angel wanted to protect her, almost to the point of holding her back from her development as the Slayer.

Spike, on the other hand, once he began working with her, was the guy who always had her back, giving her the assurance that, if she ran into anything that she couldn't handle alone, he was right there, ready to help.)

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS! This is why I couldn't be a Bangel ever. Because Angel wanted to stand in front of Buffy and protect her. Spike wanted to fight beside her. The protection was what she needed back then... but Angel could never stop protecting her if he was there because of the way he loved her.
 
Goby
Goby
Yes!!! And not just beside her, but he was man enough to be one step behind her and let her take charge.
PassionBecoming
PassionBecoming
Indeed! That's a big difference between their relationships. Angel was a protector; Spike was a soldier.
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