Comic Book Geek Bashes Joss

nerd4hire

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This comic geek has written an article here Comic Geek's Opinion Piece in which he expresses a dislike for the idea of television or movie people writing comics.

Actually he makes some points that on the surface sound valid.

He's saying celebrity writers like Joss, Kevin Smith, and Bryan Singer coming into the comic field take jobs away from legitimate comic book writers.

I don't know about the other 2, but that's not true of Joss. Joss may be writing a few X men, but he's also given work to comic book writers with the Buffy, Angel series and a few more. I'd like to think success breeds success.

He also says people like Joss shouldn't write comics, because they don't make their deadlines. This was true in the case of Fray, nevertheless given the choice of waiting a couple of months for the next Fray episode, or doing without it, I choose Fray.

He says another thing that irritates me, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the subject. He says Kevin Smith never did anything that was worth anything after Clerks. Personally I like Dogma, and even some of Smith's crappier works have more interesting, fun bits than a lot of Oscar nominees in the same genre - in my opinion.

Here's a blurb from the article to give you an idea of what it's about:

So, Joss Whedon, creator and writer of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, has been anointed as the writer of ASTONISHING X-MEN. Not too far behind him is Bryan Singer, director of two successful movies starring our merry band of mutants, who's agreed to co-plot a year's worth of ULTIMATE X-MEN. The top brass over at Marvel Comics are no doubt very pleased about this little arrangement, but to the rest of us it just proves that the 'House of Ideas' has run out of exactly that. Ideas.
 
What is this guy nagging about?

Are they good writers? Yes, then I guess he should prefer them over the other comicbook writers... and sure, they loose a job, but hello... that's sort of how the world works, is the writer of this piece willing to buy his bread at a bakery of a baker, who can't bake (say that out loud fast 20 times)... no, I assume he rather just eats stuff that tastes good. The best people get the best jobs.

And on dead lines not being made, if he could choose between for the same price buying either a 20 year old small ulgly car right now or wait two months and buy a brand new jaguar at the same price... I know what I'd do.
 
Celebrity Meltdown - An examination of Joss Whedon

Celebrity Meltdown - An examination of Joss Whedon


With Joss Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN on its way, Bulent Yusuf looks at the phenomenon of the celebrity writer and asks, do we really need to look beyond comics to find yet more writers who can't keep a deadline?

So, Joss Whedon, creator and writer of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, has been anointed as the writer of ASTONISHING X-MEN. Not too far behind him is Bryan Singer, director of two successful movies starring our merry band of mutants, who's agreed to co-plot a year's worth of ULTIMATE X-MEN. The top brass over at Marvel Comics are no doubt very pleased about this little arrangement, but to the rest of us it just proves that the 'House of Ideas' has run out of exactly that. Ideas.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing the creative gifts of either Whedon or Singer. Between them, we have the collective pop-cultural delights of THE USUAL SUSPECTS, TOY STORY, SPEED, and of course, Sarah Michelle Gellar on our television screens for seven years. For all of these I am eternally grateful.

The problem is that the worlds of film and television are growing ever closer to that of the comic book industry, to the point where the unique identity of the medium is in danger of becoming submerged.

In the short term, there is positive publicity, yes, and both the die-hard fans and the casual reader may well snap up the first couple of issues. There's a crossover appeal, where the TV/film audience for the work of the celebrity wordsmith might be tempted to check out their work in comics. Sales go up, and the industry lives to fight another day.

'The use of celebrity writers proves that the House of Ideas is out of ideas.' In the long term, however, we should be asking how qualified these celebrities are to determine the futures of our favourite characters. It sounds pompous, but writing funny books is a serious business, and they have a sophisticated audience. If one of these celebrities underestimates the workings of the medium, then their book will be an embarrassing failure, and the market gets cheapened that little bit more (if that's possible).

More importantly, these same celebrity writers are helping to put more 'conventional' writers out of a job. These writers don't have the glitz and the glamour of Hollywood to herald their arrival, they may well have a decent story they want to tell through comics. But they're not getting the opportunity, because the big names are squeezing them out.

But let's try and quantify these remarks. Any Kevin Smith fans in the house? If so, then avert your eyes now. If ever there was an "Exhibit A" of the worst kind of celebrity writer, it would be Mr Smith. CLERKS is perhaps the only decent film he's made in his whole career, and yet the fact that he's a fan of comic books and that he's buddies with Matt 'n' Ben seemed to be qualification enough to let him play around with characters like Daredevil and Green Arrow.

This was plainly a mistake - his comics work is characterised by leaden dialogue, implausible plots, and pathetic jokes. And with the SPIDER-MAN/BLACK CAT and DAREDEVIL/BULLSEYE mini-series he committed an even worse sin; the inability to meet a deadline. Readers have been left hanging for the conclusion to these stories for nearly a year now.

'How qualified are these celebrities to determine the futures of our comics?' Elsewhere, we have J Michael Straczynski, who made his name as the creator and writer of the TV series. BABYLON 5. Like Smith, Straczynski's characters tend to suffer from verbal diarrhoea. Perhaps this overabundance of speech balloons is a carry-over from writing for the screen, which is more forgiving of talking heads.

Straczynski's run on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN started off strong, but quickly degenerated because of a preponderance of stories concerning magic, mysticism and 'spider-totems'. Which isn't to say that he's a weak writer, but one senses that Straczynski is looking to work on a broader palette than traditional super heroics, and one without the continuity baggage. If you were to read SUPREME POWER, for instance, you'd hardly believe that this politically astute thriller and AMAZING SPIDER-MAN were written by the same person.

Every now and then there is the exception to the rule. Geoff Johns, who built his reputation on scripting titles like FLASH, JSA, HAWKMAN and TEEN TITANS, claims that he learned everything about storytelling at the knee of Richard Donner while working in the film business. Donner, if you recall, was the man who directed one and a half of the immensely popular SUPERMAN movies for Warner Brothers. But Johns has proved his worth to DC by producing one great story after another, and obviously treats writing for comics as his primary profession, not as a working holiday from the stresses of Hollywood.

I'm not saying that celebrity writers shouldn't be writing for comic books at all, but nor should they be given carte blanche to play with big league characters when they haven't earned the right to do so. Joss Whedon started out smart with his FRAY mini-series, chronicling the adventures of another vampire slayer in a dystopian future. This was an exercise in learning the ropes of sequential storytelling while using familiar material.

But an enjoyable romp though it was, that eight issue mini-series took three years to complete; can Whedon guarantee better regularity and commitment with X-MEN? We'll have to wait and see.

'Kevin Smith's comics work is characterised by leaden dialogue and implausible plots.' Bryan Singer is probably the more interesting development of the two, because his drift into the comics industry proper means that the Marvel Age of Movies has now come full circle. The ULTIMATE line was initially conceived as a means of introducing new readers to familiar characters by scrapping the continuity and going back to square one. They took their visual and stylistic cues from the first X-MEN and SPIDER-MAN movies, and many of their core readers were drawn from the same people who liked the various film properties that Marvel has produced in an astonishingly brief period of time.

Thanks to Avi Arad, the company has worked very hard to foster ties with Hollywood, and it's often joked that it'd be cheaper for Marvel to stop producing comic books altogether and focus on making movies.

But the thing to remember about Singer's employment is that the third X-MEN movie is looming in the minds of many a Marvelite. Is this writing gig just a clever ploy to raise anticipation? Will Singer be using this opportunity to publicly storyboard the next instalment of his cinematic opus?

I could be absolutely wrong, and Singer's run on ULTIMATE X-MEN could be a wonderful read. But what if I'm right? Many jokes have their origins in truth, and it's clear by now that Marvel really is using its comics as advertising billboards for film projects. This is wrong, and robs the comics themselves of individuality, value and dignity. DC was bought outright by Warner Bros many years ago for the express purpose of utilising the movie rights to its stable of characters, but DC has never been as ruthless as Marvel when it comes to exploiting the commercial potential of its rich history and characters.

Hopefully, this obsession with celebrity writers is just a fad, and like all fads, it will soon go away. When a reader picks up a comic book, they deserve a decent story written by dedicated craftsmen, and not the vanity project of an odd-jobbing Hollywood exile.

And if it doesn't? Well, perhaps then we'll see the day when a schmuck like Ben Affleck guest writes DOCTOR STRANGE: SORCEROR SUPREME. Or perhaps the Comics Code Authority stamp will be replaced by a badge that frantically implores us to catch the film, watch the TV show, eat the Happy Meal, play with the toys, and, of course, buy the t-shirt.

Source
 
Yeah I did. Might as well connect them both together, eh? Saves on the mouse-clicks.
 
The top brass over at Marvel Comics are no doubt very pleased about this little arrangement, but to the rest of us it just proves that the 'House of Ideas' has run out of exactly that. Ideas.

If the folks have run out of ideas, then isn't an infusion of new blood a good thing? Is it so bad that those people are known from a another medium? Wouldn't that draw more people, the fans of those people who don't normally read them, to comics?

The problem is that the worlds of film and television are growing ever closer to that of the comic book industry, to the point where the unique identity of the medium is in danger of becoming submerged.

You mean the "comic books are for geeks" identity that drives people and their dollars away from graphic novels and towards other forms of entertainment? Wouldn't want to lose that!

how qualified these celebrities are to determine the futures of our favorite characters.

Qualified enough to handle them in film adaptations. Perhaps Joss should begin questioning how qualified the writers at Dark Horse comics are, the ones who create the Buffy and Angel comics. Maybe he should cancel the lines and put those folks out of work.

Look at it this way, Joss and Kevin are writers. What makes them less qualified than others? Should no one who hasn't written a comic before be allowed the honor to do so? So when the current stable of comics writers die then comics should cease to exist? Um.... yeah, good plan.

More importantly, these same celebrity writers are helping to put more 'conventional' writers out of a job.

I think he means the writers which he's said are already out of ideas. Doesn't that mean they should be out of a job?

Besides, I may not know a lot about comics, but I know that in the grand scheme of things that Marvel, Dark Horse, and DC, the companies which these celebrity writers are working for, are essentially viewed by those who take their comics seriously as hacks.

The fans feel that the good writers in the world of comics are the ones producing small or independent books. DC and their cronies are essentially viewed as a joke, as are their writers. So where's the big loss? The equivalent would be Stephen King taking a position writing for Smallville. Does anyone care if nameless hack writer [HASHTAG]#273[/HASHTAG] has to go elsewhere for work, when he shouldn't even have been writing in the first place?

But let's try and quantify these remarks. Any Kevin Smith fans in the house? If so, then avert your eyes now. If ever there was an "Exhibit A" of the worst kind of celebrity writer, it would be Mr. Smith. CLERKS is perhaps the only decent film he's made in his whole career, and yet the fact that he's a fan of comic books and that he's buddies with Matt 'n' Ben seemed to be qualification enough to let him play around with characters like Daredevil and Green Arrow.

First, Smith has had several great flicks. If he can't see that, and he's a critic, the he needs to find new line of work.

Second, he's a writer, and he reads comics. He knows the characters, he knows the plot lines, he writes for a living. Those are his qualifications. What else does this guy want? Proof that he sleeps in Spider-man underoos? Does he need a tattoo of Wonder Woman on his butt? One would think that familiarity with the subject and skill at writing would be enough.

Third, these are Marvel and DC properties were talking about. I doubt they were Pulitzer prize stuff before Smith showed up. I read both those titles when I was a kid and they kind of sucked.

[Smith's work on Daredevil and Green Arrow] was plainly a mistake - his comics work is characterised by leaden dialogue, implausible plots, and pathetic jokes.

Congratulations... that describes damn near every comic book I've ever read.

'How qualified are these celebrities to determine the futures of our comics?

Qualified enough that they got hired. Guess the same probably can't be said for the writer of this article.

Straczynski's run on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN started off strong, but quickly degenerated because of a preponderance of stories concerning magic, mysticism and 'spider-totems'.

I may not know much about comics, but I know that the Scarlet-Spider clone story line is widely regarded as the worst thing to ever happen to the title. That was done by real comic book writers. Perhaps Yusuf should begin questioning everyone's talent? Or... maybe it's just a good thing that the reins are being taken away from people who would create such poor story lines and mishandle the characters.

Every now and then there is the exception to the rule.

The why did Yusuf take the time to write an article? Why condemn celeb writers in general when not all celeb writers are bad? If all non-celebrity writers were good I could see a point. That isn't the case.

I'm not saying that celebrity writers shouldn't be writing for comic books at all

Wow... did he write that article in 'steam-of-thought' mode? Just throw words on the paper without actually knowing or reading what he was putting down, because he clearly says that celebrity writers are putting the non-celeb variety out of work and questions their qualifications. It's made fairly clear by the simple fact that he wrote the article that he is against celebrity writers in general, then he contradicts himself by saying that's not the case. Again, then why write the article?

...but nor should they be given carte blanche to play with big league characters

Did all of Marvel and DC's editor's quit? Since when have writers had the final say in such properties? Do celebrities somehow develop evil mind control powers that allow them to slip ideas past their editors that regular joe comic writer couldn't?

I could be absolutely wrong, and Singer's run on ULTIMATE X-MEN could be a wonderful read. But what if I'm right?

But what if the whole world suddenly flies out of it's orbit and smashes into the sun? I may be wrong, but what if I'm right? Wow... I'd better go write an article. I mean, sure there'd be absolutely not reason for me to do so because I have no facts to support my theory, but hey... Yusuf here proves you don't need little things like a point, factual evidence, or even a solid opinion to write an aritle. All you need it a lot of time to waste.

When a reader picks up a comic book, they deserve a decent story written by dedicated craftsmen, and not the vanity project of an odd-jobbing Hollywood exile.

Holy contradiction Batman! Yusuf says that some celebrity writers have done good work then goes on to suggest that they aren't dedicated craftsmen capable of creating a decent story. We also know that not all full time comic book writers are capable of giving comic book fans what he thinks they deserve. So why single out the writers who've done work in different mediums?

You know, I can't find see any reason at all for this guy to have written this article. Not all celebrity writers are bad, but not all are good either. If one writer takes on a job then a different writer can't also have that same job. Wow, thanks for those stunning revelations!
 
Happy said:
You know, I can't find see any reason at all for this guy to have written this article.

Here's a theory. I sometimes wonder if a lot of critics aren't failed no-talent writers.

Perhaps this guy is hoping to find an excuse for his own brainless dribble being rejected.
 
N4H has a point, firstly all fan boys are known for being very critical and that's where most negative critiscm comes from, envy. When this guy says that Hollywood celebrities are putting good writers out of work he means that bad writers like him won't be able to find work at Marvel. I honestly think that the best that has happened to the comic world has been the A-List Hollywood talent writing for comics, if you look at Kevin Smiths runs on Daredevil and Green Arrow, you'll know that these guys bring quality to comics that usually isn't shown. Same goes for Joss, He will bring a new outlook to the mutants, which is very much needed because despite the popularity of New X-Men, the comics have been getting kind of stale.
 
lemme clarify a few things. I'm a longtime comic lover. And I personally love when people like Whedon, writers from outside the medium, write comics. And they really don't take away jobs from comic writers. Whedon's writing a completely new title. It wouldn't have been launched without him. No comic writer was fired to make way for him. Same deal with Kevin Smith on Green Arrow and Daredevil. Daredevil has really low sales before Smith came on, and was on the track for cancellation. And Green Arrow was cancelled long before Smith relaunched the title. Brad Meltzer, a novelist, took over Green Arrow from Smith, not from someone who solely writes comics. And J. Michael Strackizksi or however you spell the name of the Babylon 5 guy is, took over Spider-Man after Howard Mackie, one of the least liked comic writers in history, the man who created the Spider-Clone was fired. So it's deeply stupid to say they're taking work away from regular comic writers.
 
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