Discussion of "Spike After the Fall #2" - Released 08/07/08 (IDW)

10-word review: Too short, a little confusing, but entertaining none the less.

Mostly, this issue just begs you to ask questions. Lots of them. Who is Non? Why wasn't Jerry affected by her zombie-turning power? What/who did the Dragon show Spike?

Anybody else feel that with the tattoos it was Lindsey? Or did the font remind anybody else of Twilight?

I liked that Maria/Spider got a little bit more of an introduction, but I still feel I don't know her.

Anybody else feel that with the tattoos it was Lindsey? Or did the font remind anybody else of Twilight?

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Dunno, but they were bandages or wrappings of some sort, not tattoos on skin.

I liked that Maria/Spider got a little bit more of an introduction, but I still feel I don't know her.

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Well, I got the feeling from her expression that she knows Spike and well perhaps. Especially of interest was her comment to herself about "not this body" right beforehand.

Allycat said:

What/who did the Dragon show Spike?

Anybody else feel that with the tattoos it was Lindsey? Or did the font remind anybody else of Twilight?

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By the things he was saying, i was expecting it to be Angel getting healed by a spell Wes was performing on him. But now that you mention that font...

Although i have said all along that Twilight is Angelus...

personally for me i thought the comic was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to short and just was more of a plot pusher than anything. however the fight was good.

as for the glowing man..... idk who he could be but i hope its some one new.

on a whole i am not impressed by the spike comics. hopefully they will pick up more next issue

i posted a full video review of thei.... the link is below

andrewcutter said:

personally for me i thought the comic was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to short and just was more of a plot pusher than anything. however the fight was good.

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That seems to be the problem with both the "Season 8" AND the "ATF" books. There aren't enough pages for the money that they charge, and then to make it even worse, at least a third of the pages that there are are devoted to advertising another comic.

Actually, that's normal for comics.
The reliance on splash pages is one of the problems today.
Some of Avatar Press' comics are truly shining examples of bad page counts and excess advertisements.

white avenger agrees: Well, as I've said before, until these two titles, I haven't read any comics since the 70's, so I'm still suffering from the shock of modern standards.

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No worries!
Interestingly enough, variant covers began to become semi-popular in the '70's due to Marvel Comics but have only within the last decade or so become the norm rather than the exception.
Some companies like Devil's Due Publishing give over double the page count with less advertisements than a regular comic for less than double the price. Companies like this are the exception rather than the norm.
The best value is normally found in Trade Paperbacks which collect multiple issues and offered for less than the combined cover prices for individual issues.

In many ways I miss the older presentation where story was accentuated and enhanced by art rather than the reverse which is in vogue now and has been for some time. What can ya do? Kids today... all splash and things that go zing!

Superstar said:

No worries!
In many ways I miss the older presentation where story was accentuated and enhanced by art rather than the reverse which is in vogue now and has been for some time. What can ya do? Kids today... all splash and things that go zing!

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I think that today's comics are aimed more toward the collector that the casual reader, though. Back in my day, when collectors were just getting started, everything was printed on cheap pulp paper that became almost too fragile to handle after a few (well, more than a few) years. On the plus side, though, in my opinion, both the art and the writing were better then, but that is, as I say, just my opinion. Still, I would have loved to see how Russ Manning or the Buchima brothers would have drawn Buffy, Angel, or Spike.

What?! You guys are insane. We're in the middle of one of the best periods in comic book history, a good case could be made that this is the best. Certainly the most literary. And as someone who has always been more interested in the writers than the artists, I can barely read some of the older books. Stan Lee was a genius creator, but when he fondly tells stories about how issues would be drawn without scripts and then lines would just be filled in based on the pictures I get a little sick to my stomach. Books from the Golden Age are even worse.

Anyways, just to keep this somewhat on topic, reading Spike #2 and Buffy #17 made me realize how much I wish Joss would use what is perhaps the greatest strength of the medium: a window into the heads of the characters.

You look at Spike #2 and we're completely immersed in Spike's mind, with his thoughts on almost every single page. In Buffy there's literally no interior monologue. None. And in the previous issue there was only one instance, which was used primarily as a call-back to Fray mini. When Buffy started and we got a little tease of that in issue one, I hoped that that was how it was going to be for the rest of the series. But it didn't even last the entire issue, and it's barely been visited since then (except in the Faith storyline, which was written by an actual comic book writer).

Ah well...such a waste. But the series is still amazing.

XavierZane said:

Anyways, just to keep this somewhat on topic, reading Spike #2 and Buffy #17 made me realize how much I wish Joss would use what is perhaps the greatest strength of the medium: a window into the heads of the characters.

You look at Spike #2 and we're completely immersed in Spike's mind, with his thoughts on almost every single page. In Buffy there's literally no interior monologue. None. And in the previous issue there was only one instance, which was used primarily as a call-back to Fray mini. When Buffy started and we got a little tease of that in issue one, I hoped that that was how it was going to be for the rest of the series. But it didn't even last the entire issue, and it's barely been visited since then (except in the Faith storyline, which was written by an actual comic book writer).

Ah well...such a waste. But the series is still amazing.

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Agree! Agree! Agree! - I'm a recent convert to comics and for me with my limited experience (almost entirely limited to Buffyverse productions), getting into the heads of the characters, knowing what they are thinking is the great strength of After the Fall. Buffy is entertaining but Angel/Spike are absorbing.

I loved Spike #2 - so many questions... I thought it was Angel in the electric mummy wrap because the dragon took Spike there and wanted him to do something about his 'master's' agony. Dragon's little face was so sad when Spike left. But i haven't seen this confirmed or denied anywhere so that's only my guess.

What?! You guys are insane.

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Yes! I a... err No! I'm not!
Dunno about the other guy.
He looks shifty to me.

We're in the middle of one of the best periods in comic book history, a good case could be made that this is the best. Certainly the most literary.

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Only with a really good law firm like Wolfram & Hart.

Stan Lee was a genius creator, but when he fondly tells stories about how issues would be drawn without scripts and then lines would just be filled in based on the pictures I get a little sick to my stomach. Books from the Golden Age are even worse.

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Who mentioned Stan Lee?
Burning Man's over dude.
Go set fire to some other strawyguy.
Make sure I get an invite though, I like to watch strawyguys burn.
The pretty fire light in the moonlight casts shadows of the future on the past.

Superstar said:

Yes! I a... err No! I'm not!
Dunno about the other guy.
He looks shifty to me.


.

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I'll have you know that I am most certainly NOT shifty! I have no shift at all, thank you. Completely shiftless...no, I mean...

Anyhow, to the point: I never really mentioned the writers, just the artists, although if you could get a few issues of Manning's "Magnus, Robot Fighter" (the early work that was his exclusively, not later when other artists and writers took over) and compare them to "Fray," you might have a real surprise. I was speaking primarily of the artists, and I stand by what I said. The earlier art was better, and certainly more consistent. The characters' "look" varies so much from one frame to the next that it seems as though two different artists are doing the work. It's like every couple of pages or so, they have to go back and check a photograph of Sarah or Alyson just to refresh their memories. (and they must not be using very good photos)

Superstar said:

In many ways I miss the older presentation where story was accentuated and enhanced by art rather than the reverse which is in vogue now and has been for some time. What can ya do? Kids today... all splash and things that go zing!

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white avenger said:

On the plus side, though, in my opinion, both the art and the writing were better then, but that is, as I say, just my opinion.

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I was arguing that the stories (or the general quality of comics in general) definitely weren't better back in the day(60s and 70s), and while no one mentioned Stan Lee (besides me), he is definitely the name that comes to mind when you think of that time and he's the source of the anecdote which I was using to illustrate my point. In the past the art had primacy, and story and (especially) dialogue were shoehorned into the pretty pictures. Compare that to now when you have top class writers such as the Brian trifecta (Bendis, Vaughn, and Azarello), Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis, Geoff Johns, Jeph Loeb, Terry Moore, Mark Millar, Brian Wood, Jason Aaron, and dozens of others working. Not to mention the ones who started it all, Neil Gaiman, Frank Miller, Alan Moore, etc. And every other week there's another novelist writing a run (Jodi Picoult on Wonder Woman, Brad Meltzer on Justice League, Stephen King on Dark Tower and another Marvel project, etc).

I can't really speak as to the art back then, seeing as I'm not an art guy, but what I've seen never impressed me much. And when today you have Gabriel Del Otto, Alex Ross, Michael Turner, Tim Sale, etc...I don't see how the art could have possibly been better.

Again, just to keep things slightly on topic:

What's the deal with Jerry? What is he hiding?
Anyone think the burning pain guy is not Angel?

XavierZane said:

Again, just to keep things slightly on topic:

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Sorry about that. I sometimes lose track of the subject at hand. maybe I'm getting old or something.

Nah, I don't mind at all. Just didn't want us to get into trouble. Also, I didn't say it before, but, of course, all that was just my opinion as well. You like what you like. Still, if you ever want to expand your modern book horizon, I could whip up a list of amazing titles in half a sec...

This is better than regular ATF - Illyria is great and these new villains are cool.