Still His Girl **Possible Spoilers for Season 8**

Andrew C sent me over this little snippet from Jeantry's Q&A. He clearly is a much bigger person than me as he didn't post it incase it added fuel to the fire. I, however, like my fire extra flamey😀

This isn't a conformation of a possible reconcilliation or anything evern close to that but it does confim what Buffy's feelings towards Angel and Spike are.

She cares about them both but ultimately it is Angel who has her heart.🙂

lmblack21: I read somewhere that you had said Joss gave specific input for how he wanted Buffy positioned with regard to the threesome panel - that he wanted her leaning more in to Angel. Can you tell us what viewpoint Joss gave you and what he (or you) were hoping to convey with that panel?

Georges: I think it's obvious what Joss was trying to convey with that panel! When he wrote the script he said "Georges, this is probably the most graphic thing I've ever written so it'll be pretty detailed..." Not so much with Buffy Angel and Spike, but with all that was going on in the background! He wanted Buffy more toward Angel because she feels more for him, but in any event it was obvious the two of these guys were in her head!

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Bangels! Do the dance of epic Win!!!:cheering:

Kean said:

Bangels! Do the dance of epic Win!!!:cheering:

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*Doing the epic dance of win*

Kean said:

Andrew C sent me over this little snippet from Jeantry's Q&A. He clearly is a much bigger person than me as he didn't post it incase it added fuel to the fire. I, however, like my fire extra flamey😀

This isn't a conformation of a possible reconcilliation or anything evern close to that but it does confim what Buffy's feelings towards Angel and Spike are.

She cares about them both but ultimately it is Angel who has her heart.🙂



Bangels! Do the dance of epic Win!!!:cheering:

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"Georges: I think it's obvious what Joss was trying to convey with that panel! When he wrote the script he said "Georges, this is probably the most graphic thing I've ever written so it'll be pretty detailed..." Not so much with Buffy Angel and Spike, but with all that was going on in the background! He wanted Buffy more toward Angel because she feels more for him, but in any event it was obvious the two of these guys were in her head!"

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(Something is wrong with either my computer or the board, because I was not able to add a comment to the reputation point that I tried to give Miss K above, so, with your indulgence, I will add my comment here)

<Don't dance too close to the fire, Darlin', that straw you're grasping might catch on fire>

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For the record, and in case there has ever been any confusion in the matter, let me state here and now that I fully agree with Mr Georges' statement. I have never doubted for an instant that Buffy "feels more" for Angel than she does for Spike and I have never claimed otherwise. (Surprised, Miss K?) I also completely understand what the statement implies, and would just like to caution all of the Bangel who may read this to keep the events of "Once More With Feeling" in mind. Dancing can sometimes be detrimental to your health and well being. While I would never accuse Miss K of being a Demon, Dancing or otherwise I would like to caution her against making the mistake that Dawn made in that episode, and summoning one accidentally.

I agree with Mr Georges' statement because I understand exactly what it means, and am not so desperate as to pin any false hopes on it. I understand the statement, because I FEEL MORE FOR MY FIRST LOVE THAN I DO FOR MY WIFE, Most happily married people, if they are completely honest with themselves, would make the same statement. First loves are wonderful, magical things, and they should be treasured for all of your life. What most young people have yet to learn is that having "feelings" for, or even loving someone, is a totally different thing than being "in love" with that person.

First loves are very rarely last loves, except for cases like Romeo and Juliet (and we all know just how well that one ended up) Ask anyone over the age of 40, and they will most surely agree. Most people over the course of their lives will, if they are lucky, love more than one person. That's called being human.

Buffy "feels more" for Angel simply because she has known him longer, and they have shared more experiences, both good and bad. She "feels more" for Spike that she will for the next, and I am certain that WILL BE a "next," person she happens to love, or even the person that she eventually spends the rest of her life with. and, for the record, I don't believe that Buffy will, in the end, share that little cottage and its white picket fence with anyone that she has met yet. It will be Buffy's LAST love that gets the cookies, folks, not her first love.

First loves are very rarely last loves, except for cases like Romeo and Juliet (and we all know just how well that one ended up) Ask anyone over the age of 40, and they will most surely agree. Most people over the course of their lives will, if they are lucky, love more than one person. That's called being human.

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Don't ruin my dreams with reality :fighting1

white avenger said:

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"Georges: I think it's obvious what Joss was trying to convey with that panel! When he wrote the script he said "Georges, this is probably the most graphic thing I've ever written so it'll be pretty detailed..." Not so much with Buffy Angel and Spike, but with all that was going on in the background! He wanted Buffy more toward Angel because she feels more for him, but in any event it was obvious the two of these guys were in her head!"

************************************************

(Something is wrong with either my computer or the board, because I was nou able to add a comment to the reputation point that I gave Miss K above, so, with your indulgence, I will add my comment here)

<Don't dance too close to the fire, Darlin', that straw you're grasping might catch on fire>

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For the record, and in case there has ever been any confusion in the matter, let me state here and now that I fully agree with Mr Georges' statement. I have never doubted for an instant that Buffy "feels more" for Angel than she does for Spike and I have never claimed otherwise. (Surprised, Miss K?) I also completely understand what the statement implies, and would just like to caution all of the Bangel who may read this to keep the events of "Once More With Feeling" in mind. Dancing can sometimes be detrimental to your health and well being. While I would never accuse Miss K of being a Demon, Dancing or otherwise I would like to caution her against making the mistake that Dawn made in that episode, and summoning one accidentally.

I agree with Mr Georges' statement because I understand exactly what it means, and am not so desperate as to pin any false hopes on it. I understand the statement, because I FEEL MORE FOR MY FIRST LOVE THAN I DO FOR MY WIFE, Most happily married people, if they are completely honest with themselves, would make the same statement. First loves are wonderful, magical things, and they should be treasured for all of your life. What most young people have yet to learn is that having "feelings" for, or even loving someone, is a totally different thing than being "in love" with that person.

First loves are very rarely last loves, except for cases like Romeo and Juliet (and we all know just how well that one ended up) Ask anyone over the age of 40, and they will most surely agree. Most people over the course of their lives will, if they are lucky, love more than one person. That's called being human.

Buffy "feels more" for Angel simply because she has known him longer, and they have shared more experiences, both good and bad. She "feels more" for Spike that she will for the next, and I am certain that WILL BE a "next," person she happens to love, or even the person that she eventually spends the rest of her life with. and, for the record, I don't believe that Buffy will, in the end, share that little cottage and its white picket fence with anyone that she has met yet. It will be Buffy's LAST love that gets the cookies, folks, not her first love.

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I had awaited this response with baited breath😉

WA, I appreciate you being so candid and I may actually agree with you to a certain extent, however, you are talknig about the real world and real life. Buffy isn't real. Where do first loves live happily ever after? In the stories and that is exactly what Buffy is. There are exceptions of course (my parents as well as my sister and her fiance have all been together since they were 14 years old.) it doesn't happen often but it does happen.

Because you or, anyone else for that matter, didn't end up with their first love is completely irrelevent to what happens with Buffy and Angel. All we can go on is the evidence presented in the show and by what Joss has said about the matter...all of which point towards Buffy and Angel eventually ending up together. Lets drop this oh so old routine of branding all those who ship Bangel as being immature. It is both incorrect and quite frankly condescending to take that approach.

I can only speak for myself but I do not ship Bangel because it was first love but because it was true love. The fact that Buffy's and Angel's relationship happened to be the first time either fell in love is not a reason to discredit it. Is Giles' love of Jenny just a crush simple because she was his first love?

If Bangel is really looked at and not just scoffed at it is clear to see that the relationship was possibly Buffy's most mature and open relationship.

Kean said:

I had awaited this response with baited breath😉

WA, I appreciate you being so candid and I may actually agree with you to a certain extent, however, you are talknig about the real world and real life. Buffy isn't real. Where do first loves live happily ever after? In the stories and that is exactly what Buffy is. There are exceptions of course (my parents as well as my sister and her fiance have all been together since they were 14 years old.) it doesn't happen often but it does happen.

Because you or, anyone else for that matter, didn't end up with their first love is completely irrelevent to what happens with Buffy and Angel. All we can go on is the evidence presented in the show and by what Joss has said about the matter...all of which point towards Buffy and Angel eventually ending up together. Lets drop this oh so old routine of branding all those who ship Bangel as being immature. It is both incorrect and quite frankly condescending to take that approach.

I can only speak for myself but I do not ship Bangel because it was first love but because it was true love. The fact that Buffy's and Angel's relationship happened to be the first time either fell in love is not a reason to discredit it. Is Giles' love of Jenny just a crush simple because she was his first love?

If Bangel is really looked at and not just scoffed at it is clear to see that the relationship was possibly Buffy's most mature and open relationship.

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(How do you bait breath?)

First of all, Miss K, it was never my intention to appear condescending to you or to imply that you are in any way immature. I value our friendship far too greatly to ever do such a thing. If I gave that impression, I most humbly apologize.

Secondly, at least we can agree that Buffy and all of the inhabitants of her universe are not real, even if we disagree on who she should be sharing her fictional life with.

Third, I have never said that what Buffy and Angel shared was not "true love", I simply contend that it is not necessarily either "only" or even "greatest" love. (And as for Giles and Jenny, I don't think that it was ever either established or implied that it was a case of first love for either of them)

Fourth, Joss has said on more than one occasion that he would unhesitatingly change canon for the sake of a good story, and if he ever comes up with a story where Buffy and Spike are the ones to go strolling off into the sunset hand in hand, that's what will happen.

Finally, as to the Buffy/Angel relationship being the most mature for either of them, I just can't see that at all. While I am not necessarily a Cangel shipper, I do feel that what they had developed into a far more mature relationship than anything Buffy and Angel shared. As for Buffy, I'm not really sure that any relationship that she has had to date could be honestly classified as mature.

Too bad this is such a double-edged sword, though. Bangel shippers have to be feeling a little bit something like this:

"Hooray! Buffy loves Angel!....."

"Wait a minute... oh no... Buffy loves Angel..."

*Cower in the corner waiting for Joss's Mighty Sledgehammer of Cruel Heartbreak to descend*

Don't celebrate to soon... You never know what Joss is thinking about exactly, and to me it doesn't sound like the "battle" is over yet. 😉

Woohoo! Cruel heartbreak!!

*does the dance of epic love and pain*

Kean said:

Andrew C sent me over this little snippet from Jeantry's Q&A. He clearly is a much bigger person than me as he didn't post it incase it added fuel to the fire. I, however, like my fire extra flamey😀

This isn't a conformation of a possible reconcilliation or anything evern close to that but it does confim what Buffy's feelings towards Angel and Spike are.

She cares about them both but ultimately it is Angel who has her heart.🙂



Bangels! Do the dance of epic Win!!!:cheering:

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*does the dance of epic win because you are so awesome like that*

I'm happy for you Bangels. 🙂

I must admit Joss' opinion means very little to me. I don't believe in automatically agreeing with everything he says just because he says it. In my honest opinion if I don't feel he's brought it out on screen in a way it became clear to *me* I don't have to automatically change the way I view the show to agree with him. External interviews should never be required reading for fans.

However, I wasn't surprised to hear this at all. I think the panel itself shows this quite clearly when not only is Buffy leaning closer to Angel but she's wearing the freakin *claddah ring* on her finger. What else could that possibly have meant to symbolise? The Claddah Ring is said to represent that their hearts belong together if Angel's description in 'Surprise' is anything to go by, so it was clear what the writers were trying to get across when they had her wear this in that dream panel.

The panel itself has very little relevance to season eight as far as I’m concerned, but does show that Buffy still feels more for Angel as she probably always will. That doesn't mean she can't enter new relationships (hoping for Xander :winking15 ) but I think it's always been fairly obvious Angel's the one who got away.

I also agree that their love wasn’t “immature” or just a “high school” thing and I’ve always been fairly confused when people claim it to be the case. Did they not watch ‘I Will Remember You’? “I’m a big girl now Angel, I’m not in high school anymore” not to mention ‘Forever’ ‘Flooded/Fredless’ ‘Chosen’ ect. Buffy was hardly still in high school anymore?

The shooting script for ‘All the Way’ in season six actually refers to Angel as being “the one person in the universe Buffy is meant to be with” when Anya is talking about it in regards to Xander. Buffy looks down hurt when Anya says “how often does the universe allow that to happen?” and the shooting script says it’s because it hits her where it hurts regarding Angel. So a Buffy many consider “mature Buffy” still regards Angel as that person and is still upset to think about it. That’s worth considering.

At the end of the day the panel won't really mean all that much. Buffy/Spike fans will still get shipper bones thrown to them as will Buffy/Angel. I thought in 'Chosen' they already kind of showed that Buffy still cared more for Angel when she kissed him and couldn't let him leave without stopping him and telling him that "sometimes she does think that far ahead." That's more than even Spike got at the time, "does it have to mean something?" and yet Buffy/Spike fans still got a lot for them in that episode. This panel isn’t going to suddenly change that, as Georges points out whilst she still cares more for Angel “Spike is in her head.”

Personally I'm hoping very little time is spent on either Buffy/Angel or Buffy/Spike because it's just going to be pointless "fence sitting" and really the panels have very little space so I don't want precious season eight time being wasted on a story that isn't going to be resolved. Give her a new relationship or keep her alone and healthy which is my preferable scenario.

Kean said:

I had awaited this response with baited breath😉

Because you or, anyone else for that matter, didn't end up with their first love is completely irrelevent to what happens with Buffy and Angel. All we can go on is the evidence presented in the show and by what Joss has said about the matter...all of which point towards Buffy and Angel eventually ending up together. Lets drop this oh so old routine of branding all those who ship Bangel as being immature. It is both incorrect and quite frankly condescending to take that approach.

I can only speak for myself but I do not ship Bangel because it was first love but because it was true love. The fact that Buffy's and Angel's relationship happened to be the first time either fell in love is not a reason to discredit it. Is Giles' love of Jenny just a crush simple because she was his first love?

If Bangel is really looked at and not just scoffed at it is clear to see that the relationship was possibly Buffy's most mature and open relationship.

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A: I don't think it was her most mature relationship. She was most open with him yes, but because she grew guarded over the years which happens with a lot of people

B: I won't say that they didn't have true love. They did. It was big and real and important. Still doesn't mean that her love for Spike wasn't true. I think the statement that he's her only true love is in fact a little immature

C: I don't think all Bangel shippers are immature, but I think a lot come off that way because they see what they want to see as with a lot of shippers (not just Bangel). I happen to love Bangel, but I love it where it stands. I think it mattered a lot, and she will always always always have feelings for him, but that doesn't mean she can't love anyone else just as much if not more than him.

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

Vampmogs said:

I must admit Joss' opinion means very little to me. I don't believe in automatically agreeing with everything he says just because he says it. In my honest opinion if I don't feel he's brought it out on screen in a way it became clear to *me* I don't have to automatically change the way I view the show to agree with him. External interviews should never be required reading for fans.

However, I wasn't surprised to hear this at all. I think the panel itself shows this quite clearly when not only is Buffy leaning closer to Angel but she's wearing the freakin *claddah ring* on her finger. What else could that possibly have meant to symbolise? The Claddah Ring is said to represent that their hearts belong together if Angel's description in 'Surprise' is anything to go by, so it was clear what the writers were trying to get across when they had her wear this in that dream panel.

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Now to be fair we never saw Spike give her anything like a ring so it's kind of hard to say. Maybe she'd be wearing that too if there was something.