Discussion of 8.30 "Retreat Part 5" - Released 11/04/09 (Dark Horse)
- Thread starter Tranquillity
- Start date
Five
Magical Proficiency Level
It was quite good, even though nothing much happens, I feel like these five issues could have been squeezed into four.
We find out whose side Riley was on, and it's good, because it would have really cheapened the character and his relationship with Buffy if he had been with Twilight. And he's so obviously still in love with her. I'm not at all a Buffy/Riley shipper (though I'm getting more and more depressed every time I watch their break-up), but I really think Riley truly loved (and loves) Buffy.
I don't get how Buffy can be alive after her fall. I hope this will be explained. OMG, I swear I really thought for a second that she was dead. Like S8 was going to finish without her. I know it's silly but wow...
The Slayers surrending to Twilight is really interesting... And the final twist, hmm... Is it Twilight working some mojo on Buffy ? Or am I right to feel it's a positive energy helping her ?
But oooh sadness, the next issue will not answer all these questions (though I'm so happy to finally know what's been going on with Willow!) and it's not coming out until December the 23rd !!
We find out whose side Riley was on, and it's good, because it would have really cheapened the character and his relationship with Buffy if he had been with Twilight. And he's so obviously still in love with her. I'm not at all a Buffy/Riley shipper (though I'm getting more and more depressed every time I watch their break-up), but I really think Riley truly loved (and loves) Buffy.
I don't get how Buffy can be alive after her fall. I hope this will be explained. OMG, I swear I really thought for a second that she was dead. Like S8 was going to finish without her. I know it's silly but wow...
The Slayers surrending to Twilight is really interesting... And the final twist, hmm... Is it Twilight working some mojo on Buffy ? Or am I right to feel it's a positive energy helping her ?
But oooh sadness, the next issue will not answer all these questions (though I'm so happy to finally know what's been going on with Willow!) and it's not coming out until December the 23rd !!
Anya2012
Floppy, hoppy, bunnies!
What I gathered from reading things online, is that Buffy was flying. People are starting to believe that when Buffy touched one of the goddesses she got her powers back and then some. I'm not sure if I like the idea of a Super Slayer though, this isn't Dragon Ball Z. I agree with someone saying to condense the episodes because this arc seems to be taking so long and accomplishing so little.
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
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I dont read the comics but I do read this thread to see how bad the comics ruined Buffy.. but upon reading that.. I thought.. Twilight is Buffy from the future. Simple as that. Buffy knows the scythe move, Buffy if the above is true, knows how to fly, and yada yada. Has anyone suggested that Buffy is Twilight?
Tranquillity
That's exactly what went through my mind
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
Yup, thought the same thing as I was reading it and I rolled my eyes as I thought it. I found Retreat very disappointing. I think because it was Jane Espenson I had very high hopes. It was very dragged out. So is Buffy the uber-powerful only Slayer again. it doesn't look like the girls are going to get their powers back anytime soon.
And drat - Riley is on their side. I was hoping he would be a bad guy 😉
Joan the Vampire Slayer
[No message]
I'm glad Riley is a good guy. I don't like it when Joss does what fans want, I want him to writer about what he wants. (Three "wants" in one sentence 🙂 )
About Buffy flying, have you guys read this review?
"At first I thought she died (again), and now she's a ghost. But after thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that the goddesses kept their part of the bargain after all. They've returned the power they were offered... but they've returned it ALL to Buffy. When Remati picked Buffy up and stared at her so closely, she presumably finally managed to recognise her as the mortal whose anger summoned her to this plane. So she gave Buffy back all the power the three goddesses had been offered since they were last summoned.
And so Buffy can now fly, because that was one of Willow's powers."
Read the whole review here, it's very well-written:
StephenT - (Review) BtVS 8.30 'Retreat' Part 5
About Buffy flying, have you guys read this review?
"At first I thought she died (again), and now she's a ghost. But after thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that the goddesses kept their part of the bargain after all. They've returned the power they were offered... but they've returned it ALL to Buffy. When Remati picked Buffy up and stared at her so closely, she presumably finally managed to recognise her as the mortal whose anger summoned her to this plane. So she gave Buffy back all the power the three goddesses had been offered since they were last summoned.
And so Buffy can now fly, because that was one of Willow's powers."
Read the whole review here, it's very well-written:
StephenT - (Review) BtVS 8.30 'Retreat' Part 5
white avenger
Joss ALWAYS writes what he wants. If ti coincides with what the fans want, it's pure coincidence. He's evil that way.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
We know for sure Twilight is a man. So, no matter how interesting this theory is, it can't work.
---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
But...do we know for sure Buffy can now fly and has this Super-Slayer strength? Looks like I'm not going to have time today to go pick up the issue before the store closes, but it was left with the possibility that she might be dead, correct? Isn't it just speculation that the Goddess might have returned her power? Floating above her body seems to suggest that she might indeed be dead.
Wow.
Craziness! Buffy dead...again. What an insane possibilty. Hard for me to grasp in my sleep-deprived state right now.
And although I dislike Riley, I am glad he's fighting the good fight. Although, I'm not too crazy with what other people are saying on BF about how it was implied that he might still be in love with Buffy. God, what a cop-out. Way to emasculate poor Riley even more.
More thoughts later when I've actually READ the issue.
davids willow
Townie
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Fredsicle
Joey Gaga
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
How could Twilight be Buffy? Hadn't we decided he was a man?
white avenger
Sex change operation in the future.
C
Crashing Doors
Future Buffy could have undergone some hormone therapy.
The Slayers and Willow's powers are with the goddesses. The goddess returns all those powers, but only to Buffy, since she touches her. So, Buffy has all their powers in her, while the other Slayers and Willow are still powerless.
laianna
Potential
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- Jul 1, 2009
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- 203
Haha, I get the TPB versions so just to sum everything up...
Buffy has all the magics from various slayers, witches, & possibly Oz and so Twilight could be Buffy, out for revenge?
In the review sosa lola posted, some of the comments referred to the lack of magics in ToYL, wondering if now that Buffy has all this magic, she is the only one banished before the Fray universe?
Wow. I wish I could get the individual issues and keep up with everybody, it sounds so interesting!
Buffy has all the magics from various slayers, witches, & possibly Oz and so Twilight could be Buffy, out for revenge?
In the review sosa lola posted, some of the comments referred to the lack of magics in ToYL, wondering if now that Buffy has all this magic, she is the only one banished before the Fray universe?
Wow. I wish I could get the individual issues and keep up with everybody, it sounds so interesting!
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Well, finally got a chance to read this issue...
Yeah, uh...there's some weird stuff going on.
Observations/Comments/Questions:
- I'm liking Buffy's "take charge" military attitude in the beginning of the issue. Very cool. Funny to see her back to her "lecturing" persona.
- I'm really glad Riley was on their side entire time, spying for them. Go Captain Cardboard! There might be redemption for him yet. He's not looking good, though. He's fading fast. Looks like he might die in attempting to protect Buffy. Seems ironically fitting.
- Riley's around. Where's Sam? Maybe dead?
- Oz's wife blames Buffy and Co. for the chaos. ("They shouldn't have come here.") Interesting.
- What's going on with Buffy and Xander? Her line "Didn't see you. Got worried" seems completely in character, and of course the hug is to biggie...but like the scene under the tree...the frame zooms in on them close-up and they appear to be sharing some personal, prolonged moment. Weird? Dawn looks mighty confused. What is Joss trying to do? He's put Xander is a tight spot. Is he again realizing his feelings for Buffy, while dating Dawn? And it seems pretty inconsiderate of Buffy to be all affectionate with Xander right in front of Dawn. I'm not liking this one bit.
- And putting Xander/Buffy aside...what is going on with Briley? Huh? I don't see anything romantic about how Buffy is acting...she only seems concerned...but Riley seems wistful...hard to tell. Her tears seem to wake him up, which is a beautiful image regardless, yet not sure what it's trying to say. Nice to see some real friendly affection between the two, in contrast to their last uncomfortable encounter in "As You Were." When Riley says "Amazing woman" I can see the real admiration he has on his face for her. I like it 😉
- I like how Buffy commands everyone to stay and help the injured instead of run. That's our Buffy. Throwing herself into the fray regardless of the price.
- Buffy's Fall: The look on Buffy's face when the goddess is about to drop her is pure terror in her eyes. When she is dropped, I find it hard to believe she could have survived that, considering Faith had just said that they weren't getting their powers back. When she falls, her body is very clearly fragmented - almost like the dusting of a vampire - suggesting to me that she was indeed "broken" and that she is dead.
This is just my interpretation. I know some fans think that her suspension over her body suggests that she has been given more power, but..
I mean, she was buried in the snow for five hours. Any human would die of hypothermia in that situation. Suddenly, we see her eyes pop open and sit up and look around. We see her look down in horror at all the military vehicles, see how far she is from her friends, how long she's been out...clutch her head in pain, and stand up. Then, she closes her eyes and looks up. This suggests to me, by looking in the direction of Heaven, that she is indeed dead. It's not clear in the last panel if she is suspended over her dead body, or if she is flying, in my opinion.
If she is dead, I only hope that someone can get to her body in time to save her.
One possibility: Could Buffy have been elevated to the status of a higher being, like with happened with Cordelia? Seems unlikely Joss would recycle this storyline, but it's worth mentioning. Would Buffy be like Cordelia, unable to have effect on anything, only able to watch over her friends? Interesting idea.
Can't wait until the next issue.
- Amy and Warren are dating? (Warren: "You're the least supportive girlfriend ever!") Am I the only one who find this ridiculous?
Yeah, uh...there's some weird stuff going on.
Observations/Comments/Questions:
- I'm liking Buffy's "take charge" military attitude in the beginning of the issue. Very cool. Funny to see her back to her "lecturing" persona.
- I'm really glad Riley was on their side entire time, spying for them. Go Captain Cardboard! There might be redemption for him yet. He's not looking good, though. He's fading fast. Looks like he might die in attempting to protect Buffy. Seems ironically fitting.
- Riley's around. Where's Sam? Maybe dead?
- Oz's wife blames Buffy and Co. for the chaos. ("They shouldn't have come here.") Interesting.
- What's going on with Buffy and Xander? Her line "Didn't see you. Got worried" seems completely in character, and of course the hug is to biggie...but like the scene under the tree...the frame zooms in on them close-up and they appear to be sharing some personal, prolonged moment. Weird? Dawn looks mighty confused. What is Joss trying to do? He's put Xander is a tight spot. Is he again realizing his feelings for Buffy, while dating Dawn? And it seems pretty inconsiderate of Buffy to be all affectionate with Xander right in front of Dawn. I'm not liking this one bit.
- And putting Xander/Buffy aside...what is going on with Briley? Huh? I don't see anything romantic about how Buffy is acting...she only seems concerned...but Riley seems wistful...hard to tell. Her tears seem to wake him up, which is a beautiful image regardless, yet not sure what it's trying to say. Nice to see some real friendly affection between the two, in contrast to their last uncomfortable encounter in "As You Were." When Riley says "Amazing woman" I can see the real admiration he has on his face for her. I like it 😉
- I like how Buffy commands everyone to stay and help the injured instead of run. That's our Buffy. Throwing herself into the fray regardless of the price.
- Buffy's Fall: The look on Buffy's face when the goddess is about to drop her is pure terror in her eyes. When she is dropped, I find it hard to believe she could have survived that, considering Faith had just said that they weren't getting their powers back. When she falls, her body is very clearly fragmented - almost like the dusting of a vampire - suggesting to me that she was indeed "broken" and that she is dead.
This is just my interpretation. I know some fans think that her suspension over her body suggests that she has been given more power, but..
I mean, she was buried in the snow for five hours. Any human would die of hypothermia in that situation. Suddenly, we see her eyes pop open and sit up and look around. We see her look down in horror at all the military vehicles, see how far she is from her friends, how long she's been out...clutch her head in pain, and stand up. Then, she closes her eyes and looks up. This suggests to me, by looking in the direction of Heaven, that she is indeed dead. It's not clear in the last panel if she is suspended over her dead body, or if she is flying, in my opinion.
If she is dead, I only hope that someone can get to her body in time to save her.
One possibility: Could Buffy have been elevated to the status of a higher being, like with happened with Cordelia? Seems unlikely Joss would recycle this storyline, but it's worth mentioning. Would Buffy be like Cordelia, unable to have effect on anything, only able to watch over her friends? Interesting idea.
Can't wait until the next issue.
- Amy and Warren are dating? (Warren: "You're the least supportive girlfriend ever!") Am I the only one who find this ridiculous?
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
I find the very idea of skinless Warren ridiculous, let alone that he could possibly have an active love life.
GrimsWatcher
Potential
I enjoyed issue 30 far more than I did issue 29. I've heard the explanations of Buffy's new powers, but it's still a who cares reveal in my opinion. I expected a bigger, more game changing moment than what we got. It's alright though, and at least it didn't anger me like Allie assumed it would. And now the wait to next year to continue the story. Patience dwindling.......
C
Chase Summers
Ha, I lost patience months ago. Interested to see the story has come no further since I stopped reading over 6 months ago
AndrewCrossett
Satsu Otaku
She's not dead... if she was, we'd see her leaving her body rather than just getting up.
We've pretty much been told that in the next arc, Buffy is going to have full-fledged super-powers... like, Wonder Woman-type super powers. Which she'll need if she's going to defeat Twilight. The theory is that when she touched the goddess, all the powers of all the Slayers and Wiccans flowed into her, and she has them all now.
white avenger
white avenger
I haven't read this issue yet, but just my thoughts from what you say here...
Riley there without Sam? That just reinforces my theory about what/who Sam REALLY is (Slayer Augmented Metabolism--the government used some of Buffy's DNA to produce their own version of the Slayer. Riley was never her husband. That was just a cover. He was her handler/trainer because of his close personal knowledge of the REAL Slayer.
I've never trusted Oz's wife. I think that she's going to turn up later as an agent of Twilight, sent to drain the Slayers of their powers.
Buffy and Xander? I remember reading somewhere before Issue #1 came out that Buffy and Xander would become "much closer" in Season 8. It didn't actually say lovers, but that was the hint that I got. It may thrill all of the frustrated Banders out there, but it seems to me, given the kind of relationship that they had from halfway through Season 1 up through Season 7, to be almost like incest.
Being buried in the snow, appearing to be dead, then gasping back to life sounds almost like something that the Macleods would do. Do you think that Joss is planning a "Highlander" crossover? That would help explain the Scottish castle. (Okay, that's a joke. I just got through watching "Highlander: The Series" before writing this. It WOULD make a great crossover though...)