Forgiveness? (SPOILERS! run away if you don't want to know!)

Will you forgive Angel?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 24 32.4%
  • No!

    Votes: 33 44.6%
  • I'm still undecided...

    Votes: 17 23.0%

  • Total voters
    74

Chosen Enemy

Losing my soul
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
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Age
40
This is a spoiler poll about the major thing that happened in the last issue. So if you know what happens there, answer my question, since it got me really curious.

Giles' death by Angel. After overcoming the sadness, can you forgive Angel, or is he done in your book? Was it too much so there's no forgiving here? Or you hate Angel completly now?
 
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
LOL!!! I love your siggy!
I thoroughly dislike Angel now. I know it's not nice or healthy to hold a grudge, but since he's a fictional character, I don't have to feel guilty about not wanting to forgive him. So my answer is no.
 
*looks for the 'let Angel burn in hell for all eternity' option*

Hmmm, maybe burning in hell is too good... seeing as he already escaped once... perhaps locked in a told room for all eternity, with teletubby reruns being projected on all walls constantly... hmm

M
 
S
soulunsung
Oh dear lord, that is torture in it's truest form. Not the dreaded teletubbies.
slight edit, i meant to say locked naked in a room built of frozen holy water for all eternity, with teletubby reruns being projected on all walls constantly...

M
 
Tillow4ever
Tillow4ever
hehehehehe
Hate him. I hope none of the Scoobies will forgive him and I'll bet Buffy will...she'll make excuses for him.

I've started an Angel rewatch before I knew about Giles but now stopped in respect for Giles.
 
If Buffy makes more excuses for Angel now, it'll just prove she hasn't learnt a thing or actually grown as a character one iota since Surprise...

M
 
I haven't liked Angel for a really long time. I'm of the opinion this is so not OOC like so many people keep saying it is. Everyone just has to come to terms with the fact Angel's kind of... not good. And bad. For me, it's not that he killed Giles that I won't forgive him for. It's that once again he fell for some big evil's games and did something that ultimately really hurt the people he "cares" about. This is much bigger scale than anything Angel's done in the past... And that makes it completely unforgivable.
 
It all depends on how Angel deals with this. If he just adds it on to his Brooding List and promises to spend a few extra years redeeming himself, then no.

He needs to change the way he does things, and that starts with making his own decisions rather than blowing in whatever Wind of Destiny happens to come along. Apparently the Powers That Be and the visions and prophecies are now cut off along with the magic... but if Whistler or whomever shows up and says "You've gotta do this even though you think it's wrong," Angel needs to reach down and find a pair and tell him to get lost. And maybe help him get lost, if that doesn't work.

And he needs to know that any kind of physical relationship between him and Buffy is over. They can be in love all they want, but they need to do it from a distance. Whether you think their love is beautiful or not, it is Apocalypse Fuel. From now on I'd have to say that either one of them initiating physical contact would be considered a deliberately evil act.

Because if the Jossverse has shown us anything, it is that love does NOT conquer all.
 
M
methos
[No message]
I
InsaneMystic
1 million per cent agreement to the exact thing Kean disagrees with.
Tranquillity
Tranquillity
My feelings. Right here.
S
SailorSarah
This is spot on.
BuffyElevated
BuffyElevated
[No message]
I'm still undecided, I'm just not sure about what's going right now but I am not that angry about what happened. Giles wasn't a character that I liked at all in the later seasons, and I don't care about his story, if someone was gonna die I'm glad it was him and not someone else so I'll probably forgive Angel because I don't care that much, but I don't think that the scoobies will forgive him though. They should kill him, whether he chooses to or not Angel is dangerous and he has to be put down.

I am not gonna stop watching Ats because this 😀
 
Out on my own here again huh?

I won't be forgiving Angel because he hasn't betrayed me. If anything my compassion and empathy for him has only increased. What's ahead of him is not a road I envy.
 
white avenger
white avenger
You've always marched to your own drummer, Miss K. That's what makes you so special. Even when you're especially wrong
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
Kean, I think I'm the only one leaning towards you.
Taaroko
Taaroko
I'm a little late to this party, but here I am now to heartily agree with you. And possibly conspire to whisk Angel away to safety from the lashing claws of the haters.
Out on my own here again huh?

I won't be forgiving Angel because he hasn't betrayed me. If anything my compassion and empathy for him has only increased. What's ahead of him is not a road I envy.

Never alone, K 🙂
Right there with ya.

I don't feel betrayed by Angel so for me really there's nothing to forgive. He remains my favorite character.
 
Kean
Kean
Angel's Allies United!
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
OK, I'll join you guys!
Old Master 3.0
Old Master 3.0
[No message]
Taaroko
Taaroko
[No message]
Im with Kean and Taake. Why wouldnt the others forgive him? Hes not the only friend Angel has killed and theyve forgiven him before. And hes not the only one in the group who has killed in his own way of "doing right". Hating Angel wont bring Giles back.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
Taake
Taake
[No message]
Kean
Kean
[No message]
Taaroko
Taaroko
[No message]
I think that it's more than a little bit ironic (and probably carefully planned by Joss) that the person who would certainly be the most verbal and adamant about holding Angel responsible for his actions will not be there to voice his opinion. And, as someone said previously (and you KNOW who you are, Miss K) Angel hasn't done anything that requires me to forgive him, since his betrayal wasn't to me, and Buffy would forgive him for any and every crime and offense that he ever has committed in the past, will commit in the future, or would commit now if he thought that he could get away with it. So forgiveness isn't even a question that should be considered.

On the other hand, for Buffy, Faith, or anyone else in the Buffyverse to ever TRUST Angel again, in my opinion, something truly miraculous (and I'm talking about parting the Red Sea miraculous, not "We went back to the store and Uncle Fred's credit card was still laying right where he had left it," miraculous) is going to have to happen, and even then, he should remain on strict probation for the rest of the century, at least.



And I also believe that any sort of relationship between Angel and Buffy that can't be carried on via long distance telephone or e-mail SHOULD be over, done with, a thing of the past, and a topic never brought up for consideration or even discussion ever again. Way too many bad things seem to happen when they get together.
 
I don't care if he was posessed by Santa Clause; I hate the character now for what he's done.
Giles has always been one of my favorite characters. He was there to guide Buffy and help her, and he always tried to do what was best for the WORLD even when Buffy herself couldn't seem to do it. Yes, he's had his moments that have made me go "what are you doing, Giles?!?!?" but he's never had a moment that he did something so bad that I couldn't forgive him.
I know these are fictional characters, but my God. I've loved these characters for over 10 years now, and I feel like the way Giles was killed, and the fact that Angel was "wearing his human face" was such a spit in the face to Giles and to fans. I read someone say that they feel like the entire Angel/Angelus thing we endured through both series is cheapened now, and I agree. If Angel is still evil without even having to lose his soul (posessed or not), I hate the character and it makes me really pissed for ever believing in him.
 
Can you forgive Angel?

Of course I can... what's past is past... I'll quite happily forgive him and give him my blessing, as soon as he accepts his one true role in life as Miss Kitty Fantastico's replacement's litter tray filler...

M
 
Kean agrees: The levels to which I disagree with that "evil act" statement are so profound I can't even articulate them.

It's not that I hate Angel or want to see him staked, like so many other fans have been saying they do. And I don't hate Bangel on an emotional level. (I don't quite understand what the basis is for the supernatural intensity of their love, but that's neither here nor there.)

Unfortunately, the trail of carnage left behind by their relationship exceeds anything ever accomplished by any Big Bad.

I'm sure they love each other, but they have to realize that there are more important things than their love. It's tragic, but there it is.

Maybe there will come a time when this is no longer the case, and they can look at each other without being horrified to the point of illness by the things they've done... but season 9 would be way too soon for that, I'm afraid.
 
The tragedy of S8 was not Angel's making alone and I see no reason why he should carry the blame alone. Equally, there isn't a character in this verse who we have not needed to find forgiveness for. Why we should stop now is utterly beyond me. When Willow tortured Giles, almost killing him, the question of forgiveness wasn't even raised. I see no reason why it should be raised now.

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------

It's not that I hate Angel or want to see him staked, like so many other fans have been saying they do. And I don't hate Bangel on an emotional level. (I don't quite understand what the basis is for the supernatural intensity of their love, but that's neither here nor there.)

Unfortunately, the trail of carnage left behind by their relationship exceeds anything ever accomplished by any Big Bad.

I'm sure they love each other, but they have to realize that there are more important things than their love. It's tragic, but there it is.

Maybe there will come a time when this is no longer the case, and they can look at each other without being horrified to the point of illness by the things they've done... but season 9 would be way too soon for that, I'm afraid.

I know where you are coming from and I do know that you don't hate Angel (or even Bangel) but I just really really disagree with this "Deliberate act of evil" comment.

B/A will have contact again and it may, after some time, be of a romantic nature and it will also, in no way, be out of a desire to deliberately perpetrate evil.
 
Taaroko
Taaroko
[No message]
I know where you are coming from and I do know that you don't hate Angel (or even Bangel) but I just really really disagree with this "Deliberate act of evil" comment.

I'm sure it wouldn't be an act of malice, but I believe that irresponsibility can rise to the level of evil when the stakes are high enough. Putting their love above the welfare (or even survival) of the world would be criminally selfish.

Angel's true happiness curse is gone now, which is ironic in a dark Jossian way because he's probably now further away from true happiness than he's ever been since his days of chasing rats in garbage alleys. But it's possible that somewhere down the road, there might be some hope.

As we saw in "Sanctuary" and "Orpheus," Angel and Faith tend to have a very healthy effect on each other when one of them is at rock bottom, so I'd like to see them spend season 9 in each other's company. (Though I have no desire to see them as a romantic couple.) At this point, Faith is the only one of the Scoobies (including Buffy) that I can imagine looking at Angel with anything other than homicidal thoughts.
 
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