Discussion of Buffy 9.05 "Slayer Interrupted" 2

Here is the last couple posts from the first thread:

From Evil UU:

[MENTION=11579]tbessie[/MENTION]

A word of advice, don't try to understand it - it's a cluster**** of Orphic theories, tarot, superhero events with time travel and various non-monotheistic mythologies. Trust me, the more you know, the less sense it all makes.

Even if you connect Dark Phoenix Willow with the world egg theories and not with that Marvel character, surprise, surprise - it will still make no sense. To be honest, one needs to be a real Wizard, like Alan Moore to pull off a story like that ( "Promethea" ) Joss Whedon is not even a man-witch.

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From ladydorotea:

Ah. Hmm, firstly lets try to believe that the puzzle is quite solvable with what information they gave us - meaning that FDW actually did give away a major reason for her doing what she is doing ( making sure that the only way back to the past for Buffy is through her dead body) when she said that allowing Buffy to get back to the past will either save or destroy the Fray future (duh ! everybody in that season is trying to either save or destroy the world). I strongly suspect that the Fray future survived - thus it was Willow's purpose to save that future, not to make it mist away.

Second clue is hidden in the After these messages issue - in her dream Buffy has a conversation with Angel from her past and she basically asks him if he thinks if it is a good idea to tell a person what their future holds. ( I assume that she is talking to the pre-Surprise/Innocence Angel.) HE tells her basically that telling the person about their future might change that future into God-knows-what - and not necessarily for the best.

Then in the Retreat arc Buffy gets emotional - after seeing Willow play with Oz's baby - and tells Willow that she killed her in the future... closing the circle.

Try to work it out from here - the other important piece is that depowering of Slayers and witches causes Buffy's loss of battle to Twilight - and that she decides to retreat and surrender magic right after killing FDW and seeing Willow skin that demon.

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Continue the Slayer Interrupted discussion here.

🙂

[MENTION=9316]ladydorotea[/MENTION] - Clues are great but what's your theory? So far, you only said what you think is not happening.

You think that Willow manipulates Buffy to kill her NOT because she is driven by guilt, but because their friendship is strong.

You think that Willow manipulates Buffy to kill her NOT because she needs to be killed to set the time-travel plan in motion.

If I understand you correctly (and I may misunderstand because you speak in riddles) you imply that Dark!Willow did it to weaken Buffy so that she'd succumb to Twilight manipulations. Right?

Moscow Watcher said:

If I understand you correctly (and I may misunderstand because you speak in riddles) you imply that Dark!Willow did it to weaken Buffy so that she'd succumb to Twilight manipulations. Right?

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I speak in riddles because people might enjoy getting to my conclusion by themselves, if I present them with all the facts that I noticed and put together as the plot of S8 progressed.

I imply that FDW intentionally caused Twilight by inducing the trauma of killing herself on Buffy. That trauma ( and further observation of Willow regressing - skinning the demon and having her eyes go all black) caused Buffy to order Retreat and later on to go on with the plan of weakening the Slayers and witches in her group by chaneling their magic into Earth - supposedly to hide from Twilight - but in reality because Buffy wanted to stop Willow from going dark in the future. Which cause the complete defeat of the Slayers army by human soldiers, which in its turn caused Buffy's ascension - bring her low to make her embrace ultimate power - which in turn caused Twilight to happen - which in turn caused the Fray world *not* to go puff... So, I imply that FDW wanted the destruction of magic and Fray future to happen , for whatever reason, and that she counted on Buffy's endearing friendship to be traumatized enough by that killing to freak out and act irrationally in protecting Willow past self. Now, the mystery that remains is why would future Willow turn 180 degrees and want magic destroyed ?

Btw, Willow *knowing* of her future killing by Buffy's hand is an ultimate clue in this same as Saga existing out of natural linear timeline and being able to send visions of NY convergence to Willow from her plane - which exists outside time-space continuum.

[MENTION=9316]ladydorotea[/MENTION] - interesting theory.

I admit, I never thought about such possibility. But the more I think about it, the more plausible it sounds. Joss loves character journeys that bring characters to the opposite side of their beliefs.

Buffy was a symbol of anti-autoritarism - she revolted against The Council, against school authorities, against The Initiative etc. Yet in season 8 she became The Authority. Angel has started his journey on AtS by fighting against W&H - and in season 5 he became its CEO.

I can't imagine why would Willow want to destroy magic. But, knowing Joss' love for subversive plots, it's pretty possible that he'll invent a reason to justify the twist.

Still, even in that case, the actual story - the meat of the story - isn't told yet. We only know bits and pieces of it - like I said in the initial post. And I hope that the story Joss plans is really fascinating.

I dunno - sounds just a little TOO convoluted a plot twist/direction. I'd have to see it laid out in a list form for it to start to make sense to me; as written, it still sounds somewhat vague and confusing. But perhaps the buffylogic escapes me. 🙂

- Tim

Pregant Buffy, really?!!

Don't worry, it gets way worse. 😀

Yeah, I know, I've read the next one. Yikes!

Kean said:

Don't worry, it gets way worse. 😀

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Yes, it does. Talking about jumping the shark. 😀

A couple new things stuck out to me during this read:

-Wonder what the signifigance of seeing s8 TOYL Buffy talking to the first in the dream was.

-Buffy's "I'm not a girl anymore" thought after waking up and finding Willow gone.

brinkster130 said:

-Wonder what the signifigance of seeing s8 TOYL Buffy talking to the first in the dream was.

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This is driving me mad, I really enjoyed the issue actually (I'm ignoring knowing whats coming as I haven't read it)

But I liked the issue and the riddleness of it all.

But what is the significance of ToYL Buffy being there!?!
The Faity mentions that Willow and Buffy share a dream space, presumably Buffy from all across time shares that dream space, could the First Slayer be changing something, or have set something up already?

Or could it be something to do with Fray?

The First Slayer is talking about taking up the scythe again, but saying Buffy is not the Slayer. Maybe she's meaning Fray?

Yeah, remember how they thought Frays world would disappear if Buffy went back and it didn't which meant that things stayed the same.

There has to be some connection with the world not change, Buffy going to the future and killing Willow and then the First Slayer sending Willow off on a mission.

It would make sense that the First Slayer wouldn't be happy with how things went down, since she is like the "Spokesperson" for the Slayer line, the group of currently active Slayers will be the last Slayers till Fray is called, according to the current time line, I could see her wanting to change that.

The whole your not the Slayer things I was presuming that was referring to what we learn 2 issues later

Yeah I thought that too until you mentioned the TOYL thing.

Perhaps the dream fairy was present at Buffy's house party, and that explains Spike's cryptic remark, "Buzz off, giant mosquito." I knew there had to be some significance! Fortunately, Sineya/Fairy shows up to give us some more cryptic remarks. Did she always dress like that, in sexy mummy wraps?

I appreciated that there was finally some acknowledgment of the death of Giles. And it makes sense that the Scythe would be involved in bringing magic back, though Willow seems to have feared that Buffy would stop her taking it.

Spike said Buffy needed normal, and an accidental pregnancy is pretty much the norm for women's storylines in modern media. 🙄 I know they wanted to do something different for this season, but soap opera is not what we come to Buffy for!

Stake fodder said:

Perhaps the dream fairy was present at Buffy's house party, and that explains Spike's cryptic remark, "Buzz off, giant mosquito." I knew there had to be some significance! Fortunately, Sineya/Fairy shows up to give us some more cryptic remarks. Did she always dress like that, in sexy mummy wraps?

I appreciated that there was finally some acknowledgment of the death of Giles. And it makes sense that the Scythe would be involved in bringing magic back, though Willow seems to have feared that Buffy would stop her taking it.

Spike said Buffy needed normal, and an accidental pregnancy is pretty much the norm for women's storylines in modern media. 🙄 I know they wanted to do something different for this season, but soap opera is not what we come to Buffy for!

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I never picked up on that at all, great catch! I really will have to go back and re-read the season.

I love the pregnancy storyline, thought I think I'm in a minority, especially considering where the story goes.

Priceless said:

I never picked up on that at all, great catch! I really will have to go back and re-read the season.

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That's why I read the posts here, even though it takes longer than reading the actual comic. I race through and miss so many things that others point out, especially visual details. This had no visual detail (a mosquito), so probably why I caught it!😀

Priceless said:

I love the pregnancy storyline, thought I think I'm in a minority, especially considering where the story goes.

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I think there was a way it could have been done, such as Buffy regretting that she will likely never have children. That would certainly be in character for her, to long for a normal life. I just thought this version has been done too often. But it certainly generated interest, so succeeded in that sense: this is the second thread for this issue, I found, the first having gone over 200 posts!