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Does Anyone Else Hate the Slayer Line Origin Story?

RedFlamer

Townie
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Another reason I’m not a fan of season 7… I thought Sineya’s origin was just poorly done, and muddied the waters from a metaphor standpoint. Instead of the slayer being a source of feminine power coopted by a male organization, the slayer was created by men through a rape analogy, which also makes the series finale seem less fitting. Buffy forcing more girls to take on the demon when she herself refused to take on more of its power. I would’ve preferred the slayer being created by a group of witches or elders, or even just have slayers being born like any other species. The shadowmen creating the slayer just never sat right with me.
 

Plasma

Be excellent to each other, and party on dudes! ❤️
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I think the core idea is interesting (if a little cliche), but it definitely feels like they went the wrong direction with it.

The Doctor Strange movie from 2016 is what the idea should have been. In the movie, it’s revealed that the most powerful sorcerers have to channel the “dark dimension” to use their abilities to the fullest extent. The Slayer should have been a similar idea, where they have to give up a little of themselves and their morality to use their abilities to the fullest. Maybe they choose not to go too far, so they’re not the strongest that they could be, or something like that.

Make it something where they make a conscious choice of how much power they take and make it an active choice on their part. They choose to do this as opposed to having the shadowmen (and their legacy) forcing it upon them. Maybe they’re born with the capacity for power, but somewhere along the line they have to choose to pursue it or abandon it. I guess it would have removed some of the theme and underlying message, but I would gladly sacrifice that for something that gives the girls more agency and a more active role.
 

Bop

Scooby
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Sineya
I don't mind the actual backstory but I agree that it messed the metaphor up when it comes to the spell Willow does. They have Buffy asks the potentials if they want to become slayers, but then we see tons of potentials elsewhere getting activated who didn't have a choice in it. Besides that, we see with Dana in Angel season 5 that the spell would have horrible consequences. And the worst part of all of it is that activating the potentials wasn't what defeated The First- the potentials were still being killed in the Hellmouth after they were called and there clearly just wasn't the numbers to kill all those ubervamps. If Angel hadn't dropped that amulet by, activating the potentials wouldn't have mattered because The First would have won. So there's all these cons to the activation spell and the only good return is that Buffy was freed of her burden of being a slayer.
 
T
thrasherpix
Yeah, Buffy's planned by itself would've failed...even with all the gift wrapped freebies like the Scythe given to her. And then it contradicted its own lore--season 7 lore at that--on top of that. Major fail. And not even the worse of s7.

Faded90

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I don't mind the actual backstory but I agree that it messed the metaphor up when it comes to the spell Willow does. They have Buffy asks the potentials if they want to become slayers, but then we see tons of potentials elsewhere getting activated who didn't have a choice in it. Besides that, we see with Dana in Angel season 5 that the spell would have horrible consequences. And the worst part of all of it is that activating the potentials wasn't what defeated The First- the potentials were still being killed in the Hellmouth after they were called and there clearly just wasn't the numbers to kill all those ubervamps. If Angel hadn't dropped that amulet by, activating the potentials wouldn't have mattered because The First would have won. So there's all these cons to the activation spell and the only good return is that Buffy was freed of her burden of being a slayer.
The spell was what stopped The First though. It needed to wipe out the slayer line so that the scales would tip. It only decides to attack because the line is vulnerable. The First has pretty much unlimited resources it could have raised an army any time it wanted but it was only because of the slayer line that it had the chance to capitalise. If they’d beat the ubervamps and hadn’t done the spell The First could have just created another army and continued to send its bringers to kill the rest of the potentials as originally planned

The amulet helped them win the battle but the spell ensured The First would never be able to attack the slayer line again

The slayer spell itself is very grey area. Does it have its downsides? Absolutely. Was it necessary because the world could possibly have ended? Also yes imo. It wasn’t just that Buffy would be freed of her burden, ALL future slayers would be: There was a chance any of these girls could have became slayers anyway. The spell just ensured they’d never be alone in it
 

Bop

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Sineya
The spell was what stopped The First though. It needed to wipe out the slayer line so that the scales would tip. It only decides to attack because the line is vulnerable. The First has pretty much unlimited resources it could have raised an army any time it wanted but it was only because of the slayer line that it had the chance to capitalise. If they’d beat the ubervamps and hadn’t done the spell The First could have just created another army and continued to send its bringers to kill the rest of the potentials as originally planned

The amulet helped them win the battle but the spell ensured The First would never be able to attack the slayer line again

The slayer spell itself is very grey area. Does it have its downsides? Absolutely. Was it necessary because the world could possibly have ended? Also yes imo. It wasn’t just that Buffy would be freed of her burden, ALL future slayers would be: There was a chance any of these girls could have became slayers anyway. The spell just ensured they’d never be alone in it

The whole thing was very sloppy with the execution- even the reveal that Xander, Tara, Anya and Willow are the whole reason the war is happening is completely swept under the rug, never brought up again and we don't even know if anyone else was ever told. So the reason for the line being vulnerable is just dropped in and forgotten. I don't completely understand why activating all the slayers would stop The First from rising again, if the preservation of the slayer line was what kept them at bay I would assume completely dismantling the line like Willow did would do the opposite of keeping them at bay.
 

Faded90

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The whole thing was very sloppy with the execution- even the reveal that Xander, Tara, Anya and Willow are the whole reason the war is happening is completely swept under the rug, never brought up again and we don't even know if anyone else was ever told. So the reason for the line being vulnerable is just dropped in and forgotten. I don't completely understand why activating all the slayers would stop The First from rising again, if the preservation of the slayer line was what kept them at bay I would assume completely dismantling the line like Willow did would do the opposite of keeping them at bay.
I agree it’s definitely poorly explained but it’s said the slayer line is unstable and if the line gets destroyed then it tips the balance in evils favour. After the spell there’s no longer a slayer line so it could capitalise on that anymore

Honestly the way it gets ignored that The Firsts plan is after the resurrection spell really annoys me. Like Buffy could have had the perfect clap back to Willow’s ‘I don’t trust your judgement’ to tell her ‘We’re literally being attacked BECAUSE of your judgement so don’t even go there red’ 😂. S7 is very choppy though
 

Bop

Scooby
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Sineya
I agree it’s definitely poorly explained but it’s said the slayer line is unstable and if the line gets destroyed then it tips the balance in evils favour. After the spell there’s no longer a slayer line so it could capitalise on that anymore

Honestly the way it gets ignored that The Firsts plan is after the resurrection spell really annoys me. Like Buffy could have had the perfect clap back to Willow’s ‘I don’t trust your judgement’ to tell her ‘We’re literally being attacked BECAUSE of your judgement so don’t even go there red’ 😂. S7 is very choppy though

Most likely the biggest reason why they kept it to themselves 😄 Anya and Giles are very mouthy considering they know the truth.
 

Faded90

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Most likely the biggest reason why they kept it to themselves 😄 Anya and Giles are very mouthy considering they know the truth.
I get Giles because he wasn’t involved in the spell but Anya? Come on now 😂
 
Bop
Bop
Exactly!
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thrasherpix

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I'd have preferred a different origin story overall. Neither the movie nor the series left me with one that was satisfying, but at least it doesn't bother me too much (save certain jarring moments). It wouldn't even have to be a lot. A single line or so (and I could see Buffy and Willow both curious) on how the Slayers knewn Kendra was a potential but not Buffy would be one example to slip something in.

Of course Kendra would only know what she was taught, and I don't consider the Watcher's Council a reliable narrator when it comes to the origin of Slayers. It's also possible (likely even) that the Council in its history ALTERED the process, much as Willow would later, which raises even more questions on the origin.

This could slowly come out in later seasons, perhaps as Willow even looked into how make Buffy more powerful to face Glory, to focus her powers, augmented by witchcraft, even if it was only temporary. It's not unprecedented. They did this when sending Buffy against Adam who apparently had powers over other dimensional energies in addition to being enhanced. Naturally, to avoid Sineya's wrath, Willow and Tara would look for something more specific (and might face the Council's menace or even wrath over it).

(I think it would be cool if the ring known as the Gem of Amara was one vampire sorcerer's attempt to counter the Slayer, that is "two can play at that magical game, and my way makes sure only the most worthy gets the powers instead of some random girl." Though the disadvantage sets in with other vampires gang up on him, and then start mass killing each other over the ring until its lost and becomes the "unholy grail of vampires."

That is, a weapon made by vampires for vampires to use against the Slayer turns out to slay more vampires as vampires kill each other for it than the Slayer herself!)



As trivial as it is, what bothers me is that when Sineya is first shown, she can't speak, she has to speak through another, but then in season 5 she can.
 
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Stake fodder

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I don't have much to add, but yes, I also hated the origin story. It would have been better if the origin would have been about empowerment, or I could even have accepted if it were an accident by Sineya messing around with dark forces.
 

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
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Black Thorn
I thought it was just a case of Joss and the scriptwriters writing bits as the bits were needed. Ultimately Joss was at fault, he could have used the whole God tale to make the tale appear convincing, giving real names to what was I.E. the history of the Amulet could have been much clearer.
Plus there would still be lots for us to disagree with.
 
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