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Joss Whedon FINALLY responds

BuffyNvrForgets

Little Albatross
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Aug 10, 2021
Messages
333
Location
Here and now, I suppose.
Yes, let's all please take a calm, peaceful breathe and put these clearly divisive issues aside. It's not that they aren't important, but this is not the place. Please, please do state your opinions on the original topic, but don't combat other people's. I'm sure we'd all like to be heard and understood, but what is going on is in no way productive. Please be kind to one another. Every word on here is written by a person, with their own story, joys and sorrows that influence their views. Remember that!


I would like to add on to what people were saying (way up there) that I agree, it's hard to know what to do, knowing our shows (Buffy, Angel, Firefly etc) bear the mark of someone who clearly isn't a good rolemodel, or someone who'd behavior should be supported.

But let me ask you these questions.

Does Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse etc. support those poor morals and twisted ideals?
No. They might even deal with them, but it is constantly and consitantly made clear that those things are bad. Spuffy (S6) is the closest we get to a toxic, manipulative relationship reminicent of what we've heard about in the reports. But the point of Spuffy (S6. I clarify because later on they have a form of relationship that is not so toxic, and I wouldn't like to make those who ship them feel like I only acknowlege the bad side.) is that it is wrong. Buffy is in crisis, and she's making terrible decisions. She falls in with someone who uses her and treats her terribly, good intentions though he might have. And she uses him right back. The whole thing is full of dispair, and that is clear to the audience.

Was Joss Whedon the only person to work on these shows?
No. None of these shows was put on by one person. Try more like hundreds. So, sure. Joss has his name plastered on the DVDs, or the books. Don't watch/read/ enjoy for him! Heck, cross his name out with sharpie if you have to. Watch for the countless writers, directors, cameramen, costume designers, set designers, lighting technicians, stunt men, actors, actresses and everyone else who showed up to work everyday, worked their rear-ends off and went home proud of what they'd done. Don't let their hard work become a spot of shame. Instead, let their work be the reason we still watch. The meaningful dialogue X writer contributed. The wonderful way X actor made you feel with their performance. The way you feel when you watch that scene lit by X lighting guy/girl.

Everyone will have their own opinion on this. But watching and loving these shows is not endorsing his behavior. Clearly, as we have a whole thread full of people who love these shows enough to hang out on these Boards, and they're all expressing their dissapointment in him!

Let's not abandon and scorn these shows because of Whedon. Lets watch them in spite of him. (Doesn't that sound so very poetical? "In spite"?) Not everyone will agree with me, and that's just fine. But to those of you looking for a reason not to lose your favorite show, I hope I've provided one.
 
T
thrasherpix
Loved your "in spite" comment. And at least for me, I do see a difference between writer and show, actor and character. Also, people are typically complicated showing different sides to different people, not pure good or evil passed on to their art

BuffyNvrForgets

Little Albatross
Joined
Aug 10, 2021
Messages
333
Location
Here and now, I suppose.
thrasherpix Loved your "in spite" comment. And at least for me, I do see a difference between writer and show, actor and character. Also, people are typically complicated showing different sides to different people, not pure good or evil passed on to their art
Very, very well said @thrasherpix. I very much like what you said about the complexity of a person. Just because Whedon doesn't have a good moral character, doesn't mean all his characters share his flaws.

It's harder for some to separate creator from creation, or actor from character. I do greatly admire your ability to do so! I am able to too, for the most part. I have no issues watching Buffy, Angel, Firefly etc. Show wise, I'm just fine in that area. Even so, when it comes to picking a favorite character, I often find I can really only commit if I know enough about the actor and find I support or agree with them on most things. It's rather odd. I can enjoy a character, even have a "favorite in the series", but they only reach "Favorite of all time" if I get attached to those who play them. It's super odd, really. 😂
It really only happens with characters though...
 
T
thrasherpix
Whenever I see an actress (seems only women do this) claim a villainous or sexual role was hard for them as "it's not me" I think, "Then why are you even acting, the profession in which your job is to play someone not you?"

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
7,772
Sineya
Was Joss Whedon the only person to work on these shows?
No. None of these shows was put on by one person. Try more like hundreds. So, sure. Joss has his name plastered on the DVDs, or the books. Don't watch/read/ enjoy for him! Heck, cross his name out with sharpie if you have to. Watch for the countless writers, directors, cameramen, costume designers, set designers, lighting technicians, stunt men, actors, actresses and everyone else who showed up to work everyday, worked their rear-ends off and went home proud of what they'd done. Don't let their hard work become a spot of shame. Instead, let their work be the reason we still watch. The meaningful dialogue X writer contributed. The wonderful way X actor made you feel with their performance. The way you feel when you watch that scene lit by X lighting guy/girl.
That what i said when a friend was saying that she was finding it hard to like Buffy because of Joss. I told her he really didnt have anything to do with the show . There was a lot of people both in front of the camera & behind it who really made the story good. You wouldnt hate a whole sports team because of something bad the manager did . As far as i concerned Joss wasn't around . I never watched anything because of him but because of how good the people there doing it was .
 

Synch

Potential
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Messages
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45
That what i said when a friend was saying that she was finding it hard to like Buffy because of Joss. I told her he really didnt have anything to do with the show . There was a lot of people both in front of the camera & behind it who really made the story good. You wouldnt hate a whole sports team because of something bad the manager did . As far as i concerned Joss wasn't around . I never watched anything because of him but because of how good the people there doing it was .
Joss wasn't around?
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
7,772
Sineya
Not in my cannon. That way i don't have to think about him.
 

Spo0kyxSpice

Townie
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
13
Age
32
Joss wasn't around?

Pretty much, if you have a look at each opening credits (I bet there's a list somewhere) he only ever directed or wrote (or both) the first episodes of the seasons or the finale's. The entirety of the other episodes are all written and directed by everyone else.

I agree with supporting the work of everyone else who for more than what, 10 years? They put so much work and this was their life for a huge chunk of it. To discredit that isn't supporting everyone who isn't He Who Must Not Be Named y'know?

At least that's my view of it.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
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Messages
7,772
Sineya
Agreed . I not going to give up something i love just because of him . Instead i getting rid of He Who Must Not Be Named & enjoying the show .
 

Synch

Potential
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Messages
104
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45
Pretty much, if you have a look at each opening credits (I bet there's a list somewhere) he only ever directed or wrote (or both) the first episodes of the seasons or the finale's. The entirety of the other episodes are all written and directed by everyone else.

I agree with supporting the work of everyone else who for more than what, 10 years? They put so much work and this was their life for a huge chunk of it. To discredit that isn't supporting everyone who isn't He Who Must Not Be Named y'know?

At least that's my view of it.

Not sure if that's another "not in my cannon" or what 😄

He directed 20 episodes (13.8%) and wrote 27 episodes (18.7%). He leads the writing credits and only James Contner directed more episodes (one more).

Question is in network TV the showrunner (with 1-2 writers as co-showrunners) works in every episode and Joss did in all 144 episodes (even when Marti co-showrun with him since season 6). The credited writer is only the writer selected by rotational basis (except if they pitched something Joss liked, special episodes (Marti the romantic ones) and freelance (only Seasons 2 and 3)) and they only wrote the dialogue following the outline approved by him. The showrunner leads that process of storybreaking along with the writers, then the on-set watch and post production (again, even during Seasons 6 and 7, but less than before).

The showrunner of a network TV simply can't write and direct every episode (a writer and a director usually spent around 3 weeks per episode).

Angel is another story.
 

janas

Bangel in the soul
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
1,093
Location
Italy - Sardinia -
I think nothing major has happened without JW knowing and without him approving, including the comics. He certainly created the backbone of the show. Now, for me, there are many episodes where I can see the behaviors he is accused of reproduced.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
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Messages
4,402
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40
Forgive this thread necromancy, but I've been patiently waiting for another thread of this nature for awhile now and doesn't seem to be happening...which I suppose is a good thing.

But I'm very curious, and I'm sure someone here could answer my question, at least say with reasonable certainty that she's remained silent.

Has Robia LaMorte (Jenny) said anything about all the stuff Joss has been accused of?

I'd find her reliable. She has criticized it, even if for what I think are silly reasons ("witchcraft" and stuff), and distanced herself from acting as she did dancing. I've seen interviews where she said Prince was a perfect gentleman (nothing on what Joss was), so I think she'd notice and comment on inappropriate behavior. She's criticized Hollywood in general, though not in enough specific detail to draw the tabloids (that I'm aware of). She didn't have to worry about retaliation and criticized the show anyway. (The only possible thing I can think of that might stop her is that she hoped to draw in Buffy fans to her ministry, so avoided criticizing Joss or tensions on the set, but that seems unlikely to me, especially as I don't think it would be effective anyway.)

I've seen her answer questions about the show, including behind the scenes (like the reason Jenny was so snarky with Giles was because she thought Giles was supposed to be a student, and thought Giles was standing in for him, but it was so loved that the producers said to keep it up), so it's not like she's taken a vow of silence about it.

Surely if portraying witchcraft in a positive light was enough to drive her away (avoiding a chance to return in later seasons, even if as the First), then surely she'd criticize other heinous behavior that made her decide to stay away from Hollywood, and the set of Buffy specifically, as otherwise she's operating on an alien morality I don't understand.

So...has she said anything on this while the rest weren't brave enough yet to come forward? Or even after? She'd have nothing to lose, and by now, probably something to gain by doing so.
 
Stake fodder
Stake fodder
Liked especially for the phrase, "thread necromancy"!

Plasma

The Second Sister
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Black Thorn
@thrasherpix as best as I could find, no. She hasn’t said anything. I did find a “quote” from a 2009 Reddit thread that said Joss commented on her being bra-less or something, but the validity and actual truthfulness of that thread is something I cannot verify or confirm.

I think she just doesn’t want anything to do with anything Buffy or Angel. I know she was involved in a recent livestream (which was a huge shock) but aside from that her personal beliefs seem to govern her attitude towards the situation. I don’t imagine she would have anything good to say about him given that information, though!
 
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