• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

Oz is really thick as a person.

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
10,280
Age
67
Location
Toodyay
Black Thorn
Oz is often spoken about as being a clever person, but was he - really?

When Willow and Oz get back together and Willow declares to Oz that she will give him what he wants Oz seems to think it should be him who decides when and where.
Why?
It is much more important of an act to the girl than to the guy, to think anything different is just dumb.
Why would he think it is up to him?
 

Antho

Scooby
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
2,892
Age
28
Location
Montauban (France)
Sineya
When Willow and Oz get back together and Willow declares to Oz that she will give him what he wants Oz seems to think it should be him who decides when and where.
Why?
It’s not that. Willow wanted to have sex with Oz because for her it was a proof to Oz that she cares of theirs relationship and wants to renew with him. Oz refuses because he doesn’t want Willow to do that to prove something to him, he wants have sex with her when she feels ready ! For good reasons not for bad reasons !
 

famicommander

Scooby
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
573
Age
32
Oz is often spoken about as being a clever person, but was he - really?

When Willow and Oz get back together and Willow declares to Oz that she will give him what he wants Oz seems to think it should be him who decides when and where.
Why?
It is much more important of an act to the girl than to the guy, to think anything different is just dumb.
Why would he think it is up to him?
This is both alarmingly sexist and completely lacking in an understanding of what consent means.

By definition, it's up to both of them. If one of them wants to and one of them doesn't, then it doesn't happen. Regardless of which party doesn't consent. Neither party needs any justification or explanation for choosing not to consent to a sexual encounter.

In this specific case, Oz's reasoning is that he doesn't want Willow to feel pressured into having sex with him as a gesture to prove her loyalty to him. Oz's preference is for the sex between them to be free of any pretense or inhibitions, and that's his prerogative.

But Oz's reasoning is irrelevant. It's not his place to simply wait around and be ready to have sex with Willow only on her terms, nor would it be acceptable for Oz to expect Willow to have sex only on his terms. A consensual relationship means that both parties are having their needs met.
 

MargoTheFreak

Townie
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
27
Age
20
Location
Boston
I pretty much echo earlier comments. First off, it's not always more important to the girl than to the guy--that is definitely sexist, and for example, when Faith and Xander have sex, it's more important to Xander than Faith (he seems to think it means they have a connection but Faith does not agree).

With Willow and Oz, it's important to BOTH of them and I think the show was directly trying to break the stereotype that it matters more to the girl. In addition, Oz explains pretty clearly that he doesn't feel like their relationship is there yet and he doesn't want Willow to do it just to prove something, he wants to make that choice because they BOTH want to and they're both READY as a couple.

It's also not "Willow giving Oz what he wants," as you stated. Sex was not what Oz was after and he never indicated that it was; he wanted to get back together and take time to build their relationship back. Having sex before they had reestablished that level of emotional intimacy is the opposite of what he wanted.
 

Plasma

The Second Sister
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2022
Messages
2,194
Age
24
Location
Westchester, NY
Black Thorn
I agree and echo what @famicommander & @Antho said already on the topic. He says no because Willow is attempting to patch and immediately repair problems in their relationship with sex. Oz wants a relationship where they both become better together as opposed to one where Willow just throws herself at him and doesn’t care for her own desires (or Oz’s desires) in favor of pleasing him.

The reason Oz is frequently seen as being clever is because he is. He is the first and foremost of the initial Scoobies to ID the root of an issue and cuts to the quick of things very quickly, much like how Spike quickly picks up on emotional cues.
 

famicommander

Scooby
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Messages
573
Age
32
I think the most obvious clue to the depths of Oz's thinking is when Buffy literally hears his thoughts in Earshot:
"I am my thoughts. If they exist in her, Buffy contains everything that is me and she becomes me. I cease to exist. No one else exists either. Buffy is all of us. We think. Therefore she is."

Essentially, Oz is talking about the attainability of knowledge here. The only thing one can truly be certain of is that they exist, and the reason for that is because it would be impossible to question one's existence if one did in fact not exist. Oz is wrestling with the implications of what it means to his own existence if his thoughts exist outside himself. Meanwhile, other characters are concerned with Buffy not finding out about sex thoughts (Xander, Giles, Joyce, Wesley) or that her new abilities will reduce Buffy's dependency on their own skills (Willow).
 

RonWesley

Townie
Joined
Jan 10, 2022
Messages
36
Age
43
Thats actually the most bewildering Oz ever does, though.

We are not just our thoughts. Somebody else knowing our thoughts doesnt negate our individuality. No matter how many of my thoughts somebody else knows, I will still think even more of them, because my individuality isnt gone and my ability to think isnt gone.
 

Tome

Berktwad
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
2,957
Location
Canada
Black Thorn
Oz is often spoken about as being a clever person, but was he - really?

When Willow and Oz get back together and Willow declares to Oz that she will give him what he wants Oz seems to think it should be him who decides when and where.
Why?
It is much more important of an act to the girl than to the guy, to think anything different is just dumb.
Why would he think it is up to him?
Not to pile on you, Ill, but like others said this is really off the mark.

Sex can be just as important to a guy than to a girl. It has to do with the situation and each individual person.

Also, did you just miss the part where Oz said he's not ready to do it? He didn't tell Willow "we'll do it when I want", he just pointed out he wasn't ready for it.
 
Top Bottom