Arguments against Bangel that annoy you

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Yeah we see it a couple of times, but it must have happened a lot because of the amount of times he happened to show up in places Buffy were at. Its more of a problem because Angel is meant to be a good guy.
Twice is not a couple of times. Every other time he made his presence known. So where is all this stalking that you are talking about? IMO it's one of those annoying arguments against Angel/Bangel that was only invented because of what Spike did, so people had to come up with some nonsense to pull Angel down to Spike's level. Problem is there is no evidence for it, hence the argument is not only nonsense but annoying.
 
Twice is not a couple of times. Every other time he made his presence known. So where is all this stalking that you are talking about? IMO it's one of those annoying arguments against Angel/Bangel that was only invented because of what Spike did, so people had to come up with some nonsense to pull Angel down to Spike's level. Problem is there is no evidence for it, hence the argument is not only nonsense but annoying.

Twice is a couple of times. And you don't know that I'm only stating what others have said, its not like its my opinion. My opinion is that Angel is underwritten in the first season, because of that and David's limited acting at the time then I can see why people could see the creep factor. Its not like they actually think the character was meant to be that, just that he came across that way.
 
Not sure where to express this, but I thought this was a Bangel forum? I stay out of the Spuffy forum because I am no fan of Spuffy. I know I'm not a mod and I'm not even as active as a lot of other members, but I just felt the need to bring this up.... Please delete this or correct me if I was not allowed to address this problem.
 
Not sure where to express this, but I thought this was a Bangel forum? I stay out of the Spuffy forum because I am no fan of Spuffy. I know I'm not a mod and I'm not even as active as a lot of other members, but I just felt the need to bring this up.... Please delete this or correct me if I was not allowed to address this problem.

Just so you know, I'm not Bangel, but I try to watch what I say here. There was something said in this forum that I was tempted to quibble on but I didn't as this is the "safe space" for Bangel. I don't think I even paid much attention to this forum until I saw a vid on YT that I then I posted in this forum as it made me think it was something Bangels would appreciate (and maybe given someone who makes Bangel vids an idea on what to use next, though as someone pointed out to me, someone already had).

I tend to come to BB while I'm working on my writing, and sometimes when I'm killing time for something else, as I've done a lot this week. I want a break so I go to a MB like BB. I typically skip many subforums, including this one, but sometimes when I want more of a break I'll peek into subforums I normally don't (just like other days I'll skip those I try to keep up with). If a thread is particularly active (as this one has been) then I tend to look in with curiosity wondering what's so interesting, and I clicked on this one out of curiosity. I've endeavored to not say anything negative about Bangel while I'm here. But I'll try not to peek in here again.
 
BuffyBot22
BuffyBot22
That wasn't directed toward you or other non-shippers; mainly toward people arguing for Spuffy against Bangel in a Bangel forum
Just so you know, I'm not Bangel, but I try to watch what I say here.
While I can't speak for @BuffyBot22, I'm pretty sure the person didn't mean you (or me). Since Spuffy was specifically named in the person's post and neither you nor I are Spuffy shippers. But it's interesting how they can't seem t leave the Bangel forum alone and abide by the rules. What was supposed to be a threat about 'arguments against Bangel that annoy you' was turned twice into 'arguments against Bangel because Spuffy'. And one of those arguments is pure fanon retroactively designed to blackwash a character.
 
T
thrasherpix
That makes sense. I guess I will peek in here from time to time, it's not like I come to this subforum a lot.
BuffyBot22
BuffyBot22
That's exactly what I meant. I always love reading your posts (:
But I'll try not to peek in here again.

No one has to avoid peaking in here obviously, but there's no reason to defend the arguments against Bangel, as Mr Trick was doing, in a Bangel thread specifically meant to voice those arguments. There are other threads for that in plenty of the other subforums. 🙂
 
I wonder if there are any arguments FOR Bangel that would annoy even a Bangel fan. Are there?

I don't like when people say that Angel loved or cared about Buffy above everyone else. I think both Angel and Buffy had very meaningful relationships with other people. I think Angel would choose Connor over Buffy. I think Buffy would chose Dawn over Angel. Those loves were just as strong and meaningful if different. (Which as I have said why Season 8 doesn't make sense).

I also don't like the notion that Buffy is Angel's whole reason for being. Sure, I think that Buffy inspired Angel and set him on the road to becoming the Champion he became but that was driven by his decision to help her. And Angel was driven by much more than Buffy especially after he left Sunnydale. He formed deep and meaningful relationships with his family in LA and they motivated him just as much as Buffy to fight.

I also get annoyed with the argument that Angel should have stayed with Buffy. Angel became such a stronger "person" after he left. I would go as far as to say that at the end of Season 3, Angel was not worthy of being with Buffy. When Angel found his mission and purpose he became worthy of being Buffy's partner. Who knows if he would have found that same confidence if he would have stayed in Sunnydale. I think while he was in Sunnydale he used Buffy as a crutch. She was his only connection to humanity. LA forced him to make new friendships, live in the human world and it was transformative for him. Its the best decision he could have made.
 
Mylie
Mylie
Agreed on all counts
RomanticSoul
RomanticSoul
LOL damn. You found a few that fast. And I even agree with them all.
There are 15 years between them, JM is almost old enough to be SMGs father. And by S6 and especially S7 he really started showing his age in his face.

That's not JM's fault. He can't help the natural process of aging, he still looked good for his age though. The stress of Season 6 probably didn't help. He looked fine with Emma Caulfield who's only a couple of years older than SMG.

These are vampires. In Angel's case even a 100 year old woman would be considered too young.

Interesting that you say that as that would mean that Drusilla is t0o young for Angel as she's only 138 in Season 2.

if Buffy really was too young then to be with Angel then she was surely too young to be out late at night fighting monsters (especially when her grades suffered for it), too.

This all depends on the age of consent where you live. In UK, the age of consent is 16 therefore Buffy was well within her rights to sleep with Angel and he's done nothing legally wrong. Don't know what the age of consent is in California though.

Twice is not a couple of times. Every other time he made his presence known. So where is all this stalking that you are talking about?

Angel was mooching around outside Buffy's house in Lovers Walk. It doesn't seem like Buffy called him because he was too surprised to see Spike which, if Buffy had called him, he wouldn't have been. So it does leave the question why he was around Buffy's house in the first place. In fact he was in the back garden.

I would go as far as to say that at the end of Season 3, Angel was not worthy of being with Buffy. When Angel found his mission and purpose he became worthy of being Buffy's partner.

Does the sun shine out of Buffy's backside or something? Because it really bugs me the idea that Angel and Spike aren't "worthy" of Buffy. I get that until they've cleaned up their act a bit, you don't want Buffy in a romantic relationship with them which is fair enough, but the idea that she suddenly has an elevated status over someone else is wrong. It annoys me how the reason why Spike goes and gets his soul is so he'd be more "acceptable" to Buffy because obviously he has to change a fundamental part of himself to be "worthy" of her. Why shouldn't Angel be "worthy" of Buffy pre-LA? What makes Buffy so much better than anybody else? Is Xander "worthy" of Buffy's love? Is Faith? Is anyone? What does someone have to do to be "worthy" of Buffy?

@dcai0830 I realise my response to your post looks like it's aimed at you, I assure you it isn't. I'm using "you" in the general sense not you as in you personally. 🙂
 
Because she says things like 'The Mouth of Hell is gonna swallow me whole ... and it is gonna choke.'

picnicblock.jpg

Because she is more terrifying than the villains.
 
Because she says things like 'The Mouth of Hell is gonna swallow me whole ... and it is gonna choke.'

picnicblock.jpg

Because she is more terrifying than the villains.

Other characters get good lines. The Gnarl and Der Kinderstod are more terrifying than Buffy. You could probably count the Gentleman too if you wish.
 
Guys, this thread is in the Bangel fan specific forum; please respect that and keep on topic. If you want to debate couple you can start a thread in the Battleship forum.
 
Other characters get good lines. The Gnarl and Der Kinderstod are more terrifying than Buffy. You could probably count the Gentleman too if you wish.
If I had the choice between going against the Gnarl and a pissed off Buffy with a knife, I'd take my chances against the Gnarl.
 
This all depends on the age of consent where you live. In UK, the age of consent is 16 therefore Buffy was well within her rights to sleep with Angel and he's done nothing legally wrong. Don't know what the age of consent is in California though.

Me, personally, the reason for age of consent (with adults) laws is to prevent child exploitation, including sexual exploitation. There are so many kids who are sure they're world wise who fall for the simplest of manipulation techniques (combined with the risk they tend to overlook, and the focus on the immediate moment) that it's sad. (And much worse, there are parents who will allow other adults to have sex with the kids in exchange for money, drugs, even just companionship, which happens too much already despite kids being unable to consent even if they wanted to.) If kids are mature enough to make decisions like that, and even more so for marriage (I know plenty of places allow kids to marry with or without parental consent based on age, typically younger for girls than boys), then they should be mature enough to make many other decisions that are sometimes barred to them, and they should be considered adults. For that matter, if a kid proves maturity and ability to support him or herself at age 15 (that is, becomes legally emancipated), then that should include the right to consent to sex with adults in my book.

(I also think it's ridiculous that here in California you can't buy cigarettes until 21, when you can marry, vote, sign contracts, and join the military years before that. I say that as a nonsmoker who thinks smoking is stupid, btw, it's just that law is more about imposing one's own moral values about a vice onto others rather than protecting vulnerable members of society, and I take a dim view of imposing one's morality regarding vices through the force of law, and that includes regarding sexual behavior.)

But that's beside the point. I was directing my statement to those who say Angel was robbing the cradle. If people are going to say Buffy is too immature to be in a serious relationship with Angel, then they should also be questioning the far more dangerous things she's doing. Giles may direct her actions, but he's rarely out there with her, meaning she's operating with a kid's poor judgment, and is essentially being exploited (actually, I think the show makes it clear that Slayers are exploited, but most people don't dwell on that too much).

But that's not how society sees it. It's like a movie in which a 13-year-old is living by herself (pretending her dad is still alive), drinks wine, doesn't go to school (though she's educating herself), cusses, and most of all kills, and yet most people are upset that she's shown being in a sexual affair with a 17-year-old...the older boy being disabled (barely able to walk) and a lot less world wise and scary than the girl is. On top of that they show the girl being menaced by a vile child molester who not only torments the girl and her boyfriend (and also uses racist terms), but takes the girl's beloved pet mouse and burns the eye out (this was shown in graphic detail that I so hope was fake, but being the 1970s I'm not sure it was) before tossing the mouse into the fire as an act of cruel intimidation against the girl. But still, people bitch about the consensual sexual relationship between her and the older boy than any of that, which to me is crazy (and typical)...and could be how people are affected watching Buffy with Angel.
 
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If I had the choice between going against the Gnarl and a pissed off Buffy with a knife, I'd take my chances against the Gnarl.

Good luck! One scratch and you're paralysed then you're wide awake as the Gnarl eats your skin, peeling it from your body one strip at a time.

With Buffy you at least stand a chance, you're human after all.........unless you're not, in which case is there something you'd like to tell us? 😛
 
That's not JM's fault.
I'm not even going to bother. Spike fans want to twist my words, I'm used to that.

Angel was mooching around outside Buffy's house in Lovers Walk. It doesn't seem like Buffy called him because he was too surprised to see Spike which, if Buffy had called him, he wouldn't have been. So it does leave the question why he was around Buffy's house in the first place. In fact he was in the back garden.
*yawn* If you actually bothered with reading the conversation, we were talking about Season 1.

And don't reply to this. Enough with disrespecting the board rules.

Guys, this thread is in the Bangel fan specific forum; please respect that and keep on topic. If you want to debate couple you can start a thread in the Battleship forum.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Yet again. And some more.

That was now the third time a Spike fan has come in here, in this thread alone, and went off topic? Well I always appreciate being proven right about the fanbase of this show.

I don't like when people say that Angel loved or cared about Buffy above everyone else. I think both Angel and Buffy had very meaningful relationships with other people. I think Angel would choose Connor over Buffy. I think Buffy would chose Dawn over Angel. Those loves were just as strong and meaningful if different. (Which as I have said why Season 8 doesn't make sense).
So very true (also about S8). Connor has long replaced Buffy as Angel's #1 person.

I also don't like the notion that Buffy is Angel's whole reason for being. Sure, I think that Buffy inspired Angel and set him on the road to becoming the Champion he became but that was driven by his decision to help her. And Angel was driven by much more than Buffy especially after he left Sunnydale. He formed deep and meaningful relationships with his family in LA and they motivated him just as much as Buffy to fight.
IMO the Becoming flashbacks made it very clear. Whistler was offering him a lifeline. Which as it turns out was actually a rope to hang himself with but I digress. Angel was wasting away and Whistler basically said there are people out there who think he can be someone and make a difference. Sure he dangled a carrot in front of Angel, one with shiny blonde hair, but that wasn't the main factor.

I also get annoyed with the argument that Angel should have stayed with Buffy. Angel became such a stronger "person" after he left. I would go as far as to say that at the end of Season 3, Angel was not worthy of being with Buffy. When Angel found his mission and purpose he became worthy of being Buffy's partner. Who knows if he would have found that same confidence if he would have stayed in Sunnydale. I think while he was in Sunnydale he used Buffy as a crutch. She was his only connection to humanity. LA forced him to make new friendships, live in the human world and it was transformative for him. Its the best decision he could have made.
IMO people have the notion that it only matters what Buffy wants. From what I gathered of people on this forum talking lately about this issue, it doesn't matter what Angel wanted or felt. Buffy's happiness comes first and is the only thing that matters. Well that and Buffy should have gotten a say in whether they broke up or not. To which I say, screw Buffy. 😛
 
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