It’s not Joss writing it’s Christos Gage but I assume in between takes directing Justice League, or writing Super Girl Joss checks his texts and approves this stuff. This just doesn’t feel anything at all like Joss to me. Not necessarily the Spuffy stuff but just the story the casual atmosphere, the lack of gut wrenching story twists. So yeah idk.
As a Bangel, how do you feel about the inevitable Spuffy ILY?
- Status
It’s not Joss writing it’s Christos Gage but I assume in between takes directing Justice League, or writing Super Girl Joss checks his texts and approves this stuff. This just doesn’t feel anything at all like Joss to me. Not necessarily the Spuffy stuff but just the story the casual atmosphere, the lack of gut wrenching story twists. So yeah idk.
RomanticSoul
Frell Me
Just one question for Gage. What part of Spuffy is 'life is about change'???? Seriously I don't get it. Buffy+vampire has been a thing now for how many Seasons? And how many of those years have been Spuffy (MOST OF THEM)? Change, my ass. If they were going for change, hook Buffy up with a guy who is human, understands her life but fits with her perfectly. Oh and write Buffy in character. Now those 2 things would be change.
Who else other than Spuffy shippers are even reading those still and paying for them? I hope you guys reading them at least don't pay for them. My guess is the hundreds they sell less each issue are the non-Spuffies fed up with the political nonsense that's all self-involved.
Now lets wait for Spike to get the Shanshu. Have him an Buffy marry and make platinum haired babies. Where is the throw up emoji?
Right there with you. Never will forgive Joss for that. He only wanted the AtS property to destroy Angel (and therefor Bangel which is what S8 did) and to get Spike back to BtVS. After all, the Spike/Spuffy fans had been screaming at the writers/Joss to get him there. They didn't care about anyone else. And Joss being the little b*tch that he is, gave them everything they wanted. What a joke.
I kinda feel like he is telling me that we don’t know what will come in the future with Buffy ... not that Spuffy was about life changing but that life will continue to change and well seE what happens. He is trying not to lose a reader 😉
RomanticSoul
Frell Me
He's constantly losing readers. Why don't sale numbers give him a hint? This team in general needs to take a hint. Depending on the numbers for the finale issue, this Season will have lost 1/3 of it's readers when it ends. That is a freaking lot. Most of them stopped buying right at the beginning. People aren't interested in social/political commentaries anymore.
The Bronze
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm not sure it's about people not being interested in social/political commentaries, it's just the quality of them. I've dropped out of Season 11 because the quality and character work just isn't there anymore. No one sounds like themselves, they all seem to speaking directly to the audience rather than living their lives.
I think I will get around to reading them eventually because I want to know how it all ends but I've lost the enthusiasm.
As for the actual thread, I don't see the big deal. She said I love you in Chosen.
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 26,460
RomanticSoul
Frell Me
I don't really care in the end. Dawnverse!Buffy has never been my Buffy. So she and Spike can do whatever they want, doesn't matter. Long as Gage stays the hell away from Shanshu (that belongs to freaking Angel), all is good.
BuffyBot22
Scooby
I don't know much about comic viewers and buyers.
But, I do know that BtVS ratings went down in the later seasons (the heavy Spuffy seasons). Yet, the writers still felt condemned to write more Spuffy because of fans who pitched fits over the couple (I'm not saying anyone on this board did that/does that, but it is well known that some Spuffy fans were very demanding and even threatening over their ship.)
This exact same thing happened with The Vampire Diaries. S1-3 had the highest ratings when Elena was human and dating Stefan (their version of Angel). Then Elena begins dating Damon (their Spike) for basically the remainder of the show. Elena becomes unrecognizable, that's how OOC she was. The storylines begin to not make sense just to make this couple happen. And during all of this the shows ratings are pretty consistently dropping. Hmm this is beginning to sound familiar? Yet, the writers continued this relationship due to demanding and threatening fans as well as the writers supporting for some odd reason. I've spoke to some Delena fans on youtube, and they are down right nasty to you when you do not agree with them.
It just baffles me that writers always give in to the loudest, most demanding and threatening fans instead of staying true to their story, keeping their characters in character, writing fantastic storylines, and having an interesting relationship that does not consume the entire show. In scifi, fantasy shows, the relationship should not be the main focus,; the storyline, message, and characterization should be, but writers seem to forget this for the sake of a toxic ship. AND IT IS ALWAYS FOR THE TOXIC SHIP. I will just honestly never understand how a man treating my heroine like dirt and constantly having sex is more interesting than two lost souls finding each other and treating each other as equals while having real obstacles yet still trying to make it work. I just DO NOT get it.
Jam
I'm in the midst of watching TVD (season 5) and yeah I barely recognise Elena, eek!
DeadlyDuo
Once upon a time suffered the same fate. Once Captain Swan came together, Emma Swann got more and more OOC. She was unrecognisable by the end of Season 6. Hook was actually the more likeable one by the end.
Mrs Gordo
And guess who wrote the Hook/Swan Stuff? Our fav Spuffy - Jane Espenson
Deniwizard
Rogue demon hunter.
While I was reading the issue in question (super boring in my opinion, BTW), I presumed the ILY moment would bother me because I can't stand the vision of Buffy/Spike together as canon, let alone Buffy saying "I love you" (😵) to the guy that once had a Sex-Buffybot built short after her mother had died.
But in the end, the comic ILY moment was so random and dull that I ended up feeling nothing! 😀
Also,
If the comics keep happening, then I really, really, really hope (for the sake of the series) that SOMEONE (a miracle) put an end to this Spuffy fiasco with some real drama/tragedy goodness instead of this fanfic of a season that 11 has been/was.
One part of me (the optimistic one) thinks that Spuffy won't last mostly because of what Joss once said about Bangel (and that also applied to every other relationship as seen on the TV verse):
"We knew Angel and Buffy were going to get together, and we knew the moment they did, people would become bored with it, much as in ‘Cheers’. And that’s how we came up with the idea of having Angel become the main villain of the show the moment they got together. Because we thought that would keep it lively. And a lot of people objected to it heavily, but we did it." - Joss Whedon
(so Happy Couple = Boring)
Whereas the pessimistic part of me remembers that this is just a comic book, Joss is kinda not-that-involved (not that this matters anyway since he's Spike's bitca), and that this version of the Buffyverse will never live up to the golden years of the series (you know, the ones with no Spuffy in it).
But in the end, the comic ILY moment was so random and dull that I ended up feeling nothing! 😀
Also,
If the comics keep happening, then I really, really, really hope (for the sake of the series) that SOMEONE (a miracle) put an end to this Spuffy fiasco with some real drama/tragedy goodness instead of this fanfic of a season that 11 has been/was.
One part of me (the optimistic one) thinks that Spuffy won't last mostly because of what Joss once said about Bangel (and that also applied to every other relationship as seen on the TV verse):
"We knew Angel and Buffy were going to get together, and we knew the moment they did, people would become bored with it, much as in ‘Cheers’. And that’s how we came up with the idea of having Angel become the main villain of the show the moment they got together. Because we thought that would keep it lively. And a lot of people objected to it heavily, but we did it." - Joss Whedon
(so Happy Couple = Boring)
Whereas the pessimistic part of me remembers that this is just a comic book, Joss is kinda not-that-involved (not that this matters anyway since he's Spike's bitca), and that this version of the Buffyverse will never live up to the golden years of the series (you know, the ones with no Spuffy in it).
Mrs Gordo
Well said. I miss the Jossverse Buffy.
RomanticSoul
Frell Me
You know Jason Momoa (aka DCEU's current Aquaman) during his GoT time hit it pretty much on the head back in 2011 when he said: 'I love sci-fi and fantasy genre. I mean where else can you rape beautiful women and have them fall in love with you.' That's disgusting just hearing it and he took a lot of heat for it (currently it was dredged back up because of Weinstein) and it's something you don't joke about. But he has a freaking point. TV and movies promote this as desirable, and have been for a long time. Hence so many people swoon over toxic relationships and men that are mean to women, just so long as he's hot and flashy. And usually they romanticize the character and what they do to the woman. A not so attractive guy no one would swoon over, that's why I'm willing to bet...if Warren had been played by an attractive actor, he would have fans defending him. The quiet, stoic and supportive type of male or basically the guy that treats you right is promoted as undesirable. That is some effed up sh*t.
I will never buy that those in support of Spuffy who claim to be Buffy (the character) fans first are in anyway being truthful. You can't be a fan of Buffy and support and defend Spuffy. Unless Buffy is your surrogate, in that you would want to be in her position. I will never buy they are Buffy fans. Think of Buffy as your friend...would you support your friend's relationship with someone who abused and sexually assaulted them. Apparently, yes. Also Spuffy did it's due diligence in adding to rape culture which is always a great thing (/sarcasm).
brinkster130
I forgot about that statement - but it is an interesting point.
VisionGirl
[No message]
That was my hope when I started reading the comics. I never got further then the mess of season 8 because it became obvious then already that they were just gonna be rehashing old plots/couples/whatever.
I saw that clip of him saying that, it was quite appalling. Though he does have a point indeed, bad boy "redeemed" by girl parts but staying a bad boy on the surface level because it is "cool" seems to be what most of the public want.
Agree on the Buffy thing.
As for the "I love you" it doesn't really bother me, I honestly thought it had already happened in the comics because it seems like Buffy and Spike have been a thing for so long. What was with the long wait for the 'I love you', just to tease the fans?
S Rou
Potential
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2017
- Messages
- 261
- Age
- 32
Love your pic!!!!!!
Well said... And yes, the Spuffy shippers have a reputation for doing just what you said they do. I don't see too many obsessive ones on the buffy boards, but in general, yes, Spuffy shippers are known for being extremely obnoxious and threating about their ship.
The buffy from the first four seasons NEVER would have dated Spike or someone like him. He's literally the Christan Grey of BtVS. Spike should've either stayed with Drusilla or he should've been staked in the early seasons.
You don't spend three seasons setting up something as beautiful as Bangel to just drop it for something like Spuffy.
The buffy from the first three seasons would have staked his ass if he tried to rape her.
One thing that bothered me is Buffy's character progression in the later seasons. They say that she evolved and matured but did she really? Dating a guy who tried to rape her and who only changed his ways because he was obsessively enamored AKA infatuated with her? WTF?????? The buffy from seasons 1 through 3 abd even 4 would have staked his ass if he tried to pull the rape shit on her then. This is why I don't think that buffy progressed in the later seasons. Actually, I think she regressed.
I honestly couldn't even stand Buffy's love life in the later seasons. I pretended Spuffy wasn't happening. I watched the later seasons for Tillow and Xanya. Those were actually healthy relationships, unlike Spuffy. Those were the relationships that made the later seasons. Spuffy was just a porno.
AGAIN: You don't spend three seasons setting up something as beautiful as Bangel to just drop it for something like Spuffy.
I don't even understand how people can honestly say that Spike is a "bad boy." Look how he acts when he can't have the girl he likes. What is so "bad boy" about that???? HE'S A CRY BABY!!!!
They have been together as a couple for about two years or less if 12 seasons is only half a year. It just feels longer due to comic book land.
The ILY was probably to string fans along but it felt significant to me that outside impending ashy death, Buffy had never told him or any other man ily besides Angel.
Mylie
Scooby
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 2,098
- Age
- 38
I guess part of what makes me okay with it is that I also ship Buffy with Faith? If they were to get together I’d throw a party. So I’m not so much annoyed by Spuffy as a Bangel shipper, I dislike them as a Buffy (the character) fan. But since I don’t really feel that strongly about this version of Buffy, then I’m more whatever about comics Spuffy. I got passed my point of anger when I read the s10 issues in which they adressed the AR. Now I don’t think there’s much that can upset me in comparison.
RomanticSoul
Frell Me
Oh, I'm with you there. It always baffles me when people swoon over Buffy's growth. Like, really? Was I watching a different show? I find saving the world (S1-4) more mature than destroying it (S5 and on), because the former makes you a hero and the latter a villain. And villains usually have self-indulgent issues that makes you think 'grow up'. Early Buffy was funny, quippy, empathetic, heroic, smart, connected to the world and the people in her life, had a job she despised sometimes but she still did because who else will and she barely complained, stood up for herself and others, killed soulless vampires instead of letting them walk or boning them, didn't wallow in self pity...I could go on. All of these things, later Seasons Buffy was not. And that's supposed to be a good character arc, character development or mature? Yeah, no.
BibliophileAnn
Bangel shipper/fan
BuffyBot22
Scooby
I'm okay with her slipping up and regressing for a bit, because that happens IRL. People get depressed and become hollow versions of themselves. I was just hoping that after the A/R and Willow almost destroying the world, Buffy would realize how messed up her life had gotten and try to fix it. I also hoped she would realize that she wanted to live for HERSELF and not just for other people. I was hoping their would be a scene that addressed the fact that she knew she lost herself but now she wants to live (I know there is scene similar to this in the one where Buffy is invisible), but she says it sorta half-heartedly and then there is no follow up where see old Buffy re-emerge. I kept waiting for her too, and I don't think she did until she saw Angel in Chosen. This is why I wished she would have been on his finale so we could see that she got her old self back and realized how toxic the entire Spike fiasco was and that she doesn't need a man to be happy, while of course still loving Angel.
Grace
Destructo-Girl
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2017
- Messages
- 1,792
What I keep coming back to, and what I think is really bothering me about the whole thing is: Buffy and Angel were both brutally punished over and over for, essentially, loving each other too much. They had to prove in extremely painful ways that their love for each other was selfless, and then they still didn't even get to be together. Spike developed an obsessive love for Buffy (to a far greater degree than the supposedly too obsessive love that Buffy and Angel shared in early Season 2) and he's gotten rewarded for it. He's said repeatedly that he loves Buffy selflessly, but what has he had to do to prove it, other than let Buffy take a journey through his head? Maybe my bias is too strong to see it, but to me, he's become this perfect, well-adjusted guy and gotten everything he ever wanted, while Buffy and Angel just have to settle.
This is what disappoints me so much that Spuffy is still a thing. For me it's basically the message of Btvs that sexual assault is the path to a healthy relationship (because that's where Spike turns around and goes get that soul and became "worthy" of Buffy).
Basically - being in love is boring (must be punished), being with a human is boring (must fail)... being the comfort blanket of an obsessive stalker is interesting? Is romantic? Is worthwhile?
I literally don't understand why this pair is a thing at all. But then, I don't get 50 Shades either, so I think I'm the one who's out of touch with the zeitgeist of pop culture here. It just disappoints me because Buffy's hailed as this feminist icon, considering what a hot topic sexual assault is Spuffy just baffles me.
- Status