BtVS Season 7 Rewatch

All of these represent her wanting to be in relationships with men who left her or decided not to be with her for various reasons. The only time she had a commitment issues was with Spike. So this doesn't appear to be a Buffy specific problem as a Buffy & Spike specific problem. Which is why I don't agree with Joss' assessment that she has commitment issues because she is the Slayer. I do buy the notion that she never felt worthy of love, at least I saw that with Angel. She seemed insecure about him being interested in her (Halloween), insecure about Faith (Enemies - Earshot), and insecure about him wanting her (IWRY). But I never saw these same insecurities with Scott, Parker, Riley or even Spike.

So I guess I find myself arguing with Joss and this episode a bit which makes it difficult for me to enjoy. Because I guess I perceive Buffy differently.
I think it goes hand in hand with what Buffy said in EoD, feeling there was something wrong with her and that's why it never worked out. Buffy has huge abandonment issues going all the way back to her father. And then one man after the other left her. Angel, Scott, Parker, Riley and Giles. It's the only thing in her 'cookie dough' speech that I actually like. Buffy saying that maybe those relationships weren't supposed to work out for reasons other than her. I saw a glimmer of hope for the character there (the only time in S7) as a step towards getting over her abandonment issues.

And then the comics come along and she jumps Spike because her abandonment issues kicked in. /head desk

There is some truth here but Holden is not the most ideal sounding board, he's just the most convienient one.
It infuriates me because it implies Buffy hasn't learned a damn thing from the disaster with Spike. Holden is a soulles vampire and as such he loves to play cat and mouse head games. I'm all for Buffy getting a sounding board (S7 Buffy really needed one) but not a freaking soulles vampire of a former psych student who would love nothing more than screwing with your head.
 
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Well she was only 16 when they started dating, so I put most of that down to teenage insecurities like anyone might have at that age. However insecurity and feeling unworthy/undeserving are two very different things.

Well she's 18 when she faces the Faith insecurity debacle and she is 19 in IWRY when she feels hurt by his not wanting to be with her (that was only a little over 2 years ago from the time she is talking to Holden). But I agree with you that insecurities are different from feelings of not being worthy of love. So they do make significant leap there.
 
crazysoulless
crazysoulless
Buffy is still 18 in IWRY. It's the day after Thanksgiving (late Nov) and her birthday is in January.
She's still working through her feelings at this point so it's not necessarily all true, but it does seem to be presented as Buffy starting to come to some realisations about herself. She's not questioning whether she feels these things, she's admitting them. That's what I don't quite get. What she admits about her state of mind back then IMO doesn't fit the motivations we saw of her character in previous seasons.

This made me curious if there was more in the script than what we got, so I looked it up.

INT. CRYPT - NIGHT

Buffy and Holden are talking. It's very casual, almost intimate, as they sit in the corner. Buffy is really opening up.

BUFFY
I'm afraid. I'm afraid of falling back into the way I was last year. I thought I was nothing. I have so much power, I didn't ask for it, I don't deserve it... sometimes I think... I think the relationship I had last year was... like I wanted to be punished. I wanted to hurt like I thought I deserved to.

HOLDEN
Wow.

BUFFY
And the joke is, he loved me. In his own sick, soulless way, he really did care for me. But I didn't want to be loved.

HOLDEN
Didn't you?

BUFFY
I just wanted to be touched. To be reached. Were you here when everything turned into a musical?

HOLDEN
I missed it.

BUFFY
I explained it a lot better then. With rhyme, and all, but I just... I can't go back to that.

HOLDEN
And you think you might? You're still attracted to this guy?

BUFFY
Well, he's changed, a lot, a LOT a lot, but no, I... I just can't feel as low as I did then and do what I have to do. Things are getting worse. More of you guys are rising, and... something's coming.

HOLDEN
Yeah, I feel that.

BUFFY
I have to fight it and the truth is, I don't have any more answers than I did then. There's so many people to protect...

HOLDEN
And you have to do that alone.

BUFFY
I have friends, they do it with me -- sometimes they do it in spite of me, but they do it 'cause they're decent people. I do it 'cause I was chosen.

She looks at him, understanding a bit better.

BUFFY (cont'd)
I sort of think... this is complicated and if you'd rather just fight...

HOLDEN
Tell me.

BUFFY
I feel like I'm worse than anyone, honestly, I'm beneath them. My friends, my boyfriends, I feel like I'm not worthy of their love 'cause even though they love me it doesn't really mean anything because their opinions don't matter. They don't know. They haven't been through what I've been through, they're not the Slayer... I am. And sometimes I feel... this is what's so awful. (beat) I feel like I'm better than them. Superior.


I'm still chewing it over, but I thought I'd share in case any of the added context sheds new light.
 
EarthLogic
EarthLogic
Nice. I didn't think to look at the shooting script. I'll have to mull over it a bit.
crazysoulless
crazysoulless
They should've kept all of that!
Holden is a soulles vampire and as such he loves to play cat and mouse head games. I'm all for Buffy getting a sounding board (S7 Buffy really needed one) but not a freaking soulles vampire of a former psych student who would love nothing more than screwing with your head.
I don't think is being manipulative here - that's what gives the Buffy segment its spark and snappiness. I thought it was fun. Yes he's evil and loving it but he's also genuinely interested in her issues, not necessarily because he cares about her but because he is a former psych student. As he says 'I'm here to kill you Buffy, not to judge you'
 
I don't think is being manipulative here - that's what gives the Buffy segment its spark and snappiness. I thought it was fun. Yes he's evil and loving it but he's also genuinely interested in her issues, not necessarily because he cares about her but because he is a former psych student. As he says 'I'm here to kill you Buffy, not to judge you'
That's not the point. The point is that Buffy should know better. Years of Spike spewing BS and toxic stuff in her ear, partly because that's Spike and partly because that's what soulles vamps do. And a soulles vampire who is also a former psych student...run Buffy run. I'm just so sick of this 'only a monster can understand me' shtick they were going for in those later Seasons. Or only a monster makes a good sounding board. It's effed up to the utter degree.
 
Lessons - for me this was a disappointing opener, both at the time in isolation and later within the context of the whole season. Back to the beginning: what does that mean? I loved it that Dawn has friends, but why do we never see them again? Xander is grown-up, a great sight. Love it. I love Anya and she is so on the outs. And yay Hallie is back. Buffy looks really pretty in a way that she doesn't later in, when she started to look - sorry, I know this is shallow of me - really thin and frail. I just felt troubled by this later on.
Wood - bit creepy but I'll keep an open mind for now. Willow is in rehab - sorry, not rehab. Influx of zombies that take a pop at Buffy for not saving them. Not her fault, chaps and chappesses. She can't be everywhere at once, she's a Slayer not Superwoman. And her response, whilst ostensibly callous, is businesslike and appropriate, she just wants to save her sister.
Spike chasing rats and going mad. Poor chap. I make no apologies for loving this character the most. And the big reveal at the end was well done but a little bit anti-climactic.


Beneath You - loved the start that sort of mixes Alias and Run Lola Run, but hated it when the girl was knifed. Brutal. Hey Nancy, if you didn't want a pet why bother? Poor Rocky, I'm with Spike on that one. Anyway, here we go with the Tremors allusion, except I'm guessing there won't be a barrel of laughs in this. Good to see the Slayer visions have returned.
Yes, I'm baffled as well as to why Buffy has left Anya alone to carry on as an active vengeance demon. I suppose she has enough on her plate? Family vibe in the car, and I laughed out loud when Buffy showed she knew exactly what a bastinado is.
Willow preparing to return, ok I get it, it's all connected. She's afraid to face the ones she loves. I feel for her, as Giles once said she has opened a door she can't close. It's a part of her now. She needs to come to terms with herself and her power.
Re Spike coming in so silently, it reminds me of Intervention when Buffy returned the same way. I explain it to myself now by saying Spike uses the back door but I can't explain Buffy the same way.
I would have thought it was almost impossible to make Marsters look unattractive but damn it they are giving it their best shot! Nice shade of blue but very unSpikelike. Costume, pretending to be sane and whole, in other words he is a big faker, again!
Dawn threatening Spike, I can't fault her for defending her sister but it's painful to see the end of that friendship.
Nancy and Xander could be so sweet, but the scene at The Bronze brings home to me just how different the gang is from everyone else. Nobody outside their little circle could ever be likely to fit in. They really are a bunch of freaks and it's the first time in a long while that this has been highlighted.
Spike subdued and low-key, we know what's happened but nobody else does. The explosion builds gradually. He wants to hide what has happened, out of fear, confusion, a desperate need to fit in and belong. Like Willow he is struggling. But he is even less sure of his welcome than she is.
Anya seeing his soul - I loved that touch. He hits her to shut her up, his blood rushing not in the direction of his head again.
Hated the little exchange about relationships - thanks, Buffy, got the message loud and clear. Spike, thought you cared more about both Anya and Buffy than that. Argh!
Spike hits Buffy once to get her to hit him repeatedly, interesting how although he doesn't physically defend himself he taunts her. Reminds me of HLOD, and I kept expecting her to say the same things back. And just why has she still not told anyone that his chip doesn't work on her????
Outside Nancy is in peril again. Spike wants to indulge in a spot of violence, but it all goes badly wrong for him. I loved Anya in this episode, but she really does need to get a grip and stop blaming Xander for what she does now. And she takes her first steps to do this. I'm worried for her.
Speaking of worried, Spike tells Ronny he is sorry. Buffy pays no attention to him until he says the anvil out loud, and only then is she bothered. She can't cope with him either sane or insane. Again can't really fault her for that but because of Marsters and his nuanced acting again I felt more for him than her. Just as I did in Crush. Yes, yes, sue me.
Church scene is really well done, blue lit like Smashed, and a contrast to the preceding chaos. Or is it? It's resignation. Spike has tried all his old tricks and nothing has worked. What's a vampire to do? He collapses literally and metaphorically. The soul is a burden right now, not the blessing he was looking for. He has given up pretending and it's all stream of consciousness here. I can't decide if Buffy is moved, baffled or disgusted. It's really hard to tell from her expression, for me anyway. Yes, she is crying but I can't tell why. At this stage my poor little Spuffy heart has been through the wringer so many times and for so long I don't have much hope for these two.
 
TriBel
TriBel
Good call on Tremors - which, if I recall, takes place in a town called "Perfection". Excellent! :-)
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
I think she is very moved..and JM's acting here deserves an Emmy! :)
Bring On The Night.

The episode starts with Xander complaining about fixing the windows every single episode. Poor guy is not so happy about his role this season. Everyone is in full research mode. Anya thinks The First is lame, and I wholly agree, and Buffy thinks it's not, and I wish I could agree.

Buffy slips to sleep and sees her mother. Joyce tells Buffy she can't win this fight. Funny thing, Willow is sitting right next to Buffy and didn't notice that her friend went to sleep. Xander notices. Is that one of the examples about Xander being the one who sees?

Poor tortured Spike. And The First pretends to be Dru to hurt Spike, but then I wanna remind The First that Spike wanted to *stake* Dru so Buffy will tell him she loves him, so using Dru to torment Spike is not gonna work.

Buffy, Xander, Dawn and Andrew are in the school's basement. And I'm disturbed with the thought of Dawnie taking time to curl her hair before the searching party.

I wonder why Willow didn't come. I mean instead of waiting for Dawn to curl her hair, they could have taken Willow. Oh yeah, Willow is not one of the three anymore. Dawn had replaced her.

Xander yells at Andrew for killing his best friend and not feeling guilty about it. But Xander, hon, you dusted Jesse and forgot all about him. Please stop with the double standards.

Mommy Buffy and Daddy Xander have a secret talk away from the kids, while Willow gets ready for a spell, I presume. Xander asks Buffy to rest 'cause she hasn't slept in two days - since he'd noticed her drifting off earlier - and I guess Buffy's lack of sleep and rest will result to her future frustrations and inability to connect with her friends and the potentials.

A magical explosion happens. And The First enters Willow, focusing on Buffy, and because it's an idiot, it overlooks Xander (again!) who went and smashed the urn against the wall, bringing Willow back from the dark side again.

Xander argues with Buffy to come with. Buffy is all "I'm going alone." Hey! I need my Xander on screen, let him tag along. Buffy opens the door and Giles is standing there, his chin up in the sky, and Buffy wants to hug him but sadly the Scoobies-Screen-Time-Stealing-Thieves cut between Buffy and Giles' hug.

Lots of boring talk, oh and Xander gags Andrew, and more boring talk.

GILES
I'm afraid it falls to you, Buffy. Sorry. I mean, we'll do what we can, but you're the only one who has the strength to protect these girls—and the world—against what's coming.
XANDER
But no pressure.

Giles is the reason for Buffy's breakdown! He put all pressure on her, but the second she makes a decision he doesn't like, he pulls a tantrum.

Kennedy laughs at Giles' stupidity and says that one slayer can't save the world. She's right. No one can work alone. Even Buffy who babbles about slayers always being alone would have *never* reached this day without the help of her friends.

Buffy says she needs Spike for more muscle, because she won't admit that she wants him back because she likes him, 'cause in all honesty Spike isn't reliable while still under the First's control.

Buffy and Giles walk in the streets and it appears to be Christmas. I wish this episode was made into a lighthearted Christmas episode. I would've enjoyed that. Since it's Christmas that means Buffy's birthday is near, but they don't celebrate it this year.

I don't like that Kennedy is attracted to Willow (just because Willow is the only gay person in the room). I really wish she had a crush on Buffy or even Dawn (just to give Dawn more storylines). It felt convenient that Kennedy would be attracted to the only lesbian in the house.

When the Uber Vamp knocks Buffy out. We get Xander lifting part of the metal roof to show a bruised Buffy, then we see a shot of Xander, Willow and Giles (original Scoobies) being horrified at that sight. Xander is in the center and Willow at his right side while Giles at the left.

I didn't like the gang's loud voice talking about how Buffy failed while she wasn't in the room (yet she was hearing everything.)

6.5/9
 
The Killer in Me

I really love this episode. I'm one of those crazy people who is not bothered by Kennedy (at least at this point in the season; I can't remember if I start to dislike her before Empty Places when everyone is awful). I thought the concept of Willow turning into Warren was really creative. I didn't think Amy's motivations made much sense, but I can set that aside and view her as reflecting Willow's thoughts about herself.

One thing I dislike is how we have to see Tara's death and Warren's flaying in so many previouslys. I just cover my eyes at this point.

The writers don't seem to be paying that much attention to the Potentials' ages. Rona called them 15-year-old girls last ep, though we have heard Kennedy say she's older than the rest, and now Rona and Molly are fighting over driving. Molly is identified as 14 or 15 in the Bring on the Night shooting script (though the description ends up being different from her character), while Kennedy is 19, and Rona is identified as 16 in the Showtime one. I guess it doesn't really matter. The Potentials are whatever they need to be...(In case anyone cares for future reference, the Showtime script has Chloe as 14 and Vi as 17.)

Man, I had forgotten how much Spike was put through the wringer this season. First, he's driven insane, then he's triggered, then he's tortured, then his chip malfunctions. I feel like I shouldn't admit this but I actually laughed when he was clutching his head and falling to the floor during the confusion over Willow/Warren. Was that supposed to be funny? (MF mentions that some of Spike's scenes seem to be played almost as slapstick, which that one certainly seemed to me, but maybe I'm just heartless.)

I am glad that they are dealing with the chip, though. I'm obviously not a huge fan of Spike in Season 7, but it's long past time for the chip to come out. I would have preferred it to come out before he got his soul, personally.

I liked the callbacks to Seasons 4 and 6 and the attendant themes of identity and misogyny. Spike had his identity altered in ways that were beyond his control in Season 4, and now he must discover who he is without his "leash" and find out if he can trust himself. Bringing back misogynist Warren during a season very much focused on how women operate in a patriarchal system feels like it could be deliberate beyond the purposes of the episode to me. Is there an element here of internalized misogyny on Willow's part (and thus Buffy's)? (Consider Amy's line: "They just care about cute, sweet Willow. They don't know how weak she is.") Caleb will be making his appearance in just a few more episodes. If anyone has thought about this more, I'd love to hear what you think!

I mentioned in another thread that I think the Giles-as-The-First fakeout can be interpreted as a metaphor about his role this season. While not actually working for The First, the way he acts plays into The First's goals of isolating Buffy and feeding her self-doubt. I'll be looking to see if this holds up as we continue.
 
I'm just so sick of this 'only a monster can understand me' shtick they were going for in those later Seasons. Or only a monster makes a good sounding board. It's effed up to the utter degree.
But that's partly the point the episode is trying to make. That's why we have that shot of her phone lying abandoned yet ringing on the grass as Dawn tries to reach her. Buffy should be making connections with her loved ones but her sense of isolation leaves her feeling unable to. I'm not sure I understand your argument that she 'should know better'. She's not doing anything wrong or reckless: she's not hurting herself or really putting herself in harm's way; she's absolutely sure she can overpower Webster. She should of course, be a little cautious since he is a vampire, and therefore not entirely trustworthy (he's also linked to the First, since he's sired by the one who's controlled by it - so he's connected to evil in a much more specific way, though this is unbeknowst to Buffy at the time) but I don't see how she's displaying any kind of big failure of judgement here.

Never Leave Me:

‘Shouldn’t we stab him through the chest. Isn’t that what we do when these things happen?’ Anya articulates challenge Buffy faces in this episode, namely how to deal with the possible threat posed by Spike and who to hold accountable.

Spike’s story and its addiction-recovery metaphor is reinforced by Andrew, who takes over Anya’s role and provides the parallel, this time in a blatant visual way as he struts around wearing a long black leather duster and black boots and is tied down to a chair in a mirror image of Spike. He’s buying blood like Spike is still being affected by his taste of human blood; his inability to take responsibility raises the question of to what extent Spike will be able to take responsibility for his soulless actions, triggered actions and his actions going forward.

I like the portrayal of Spike’s withdrawal symptoms. I was afraid they’d somewhat gloss over the effects the consumption of all that human blood would have on him. The vamp ‘tiger roar’ sound effect is excellent – it’s good to hear them again; I feel like it’s been a long time since it was used. And yes, I love that Spike grabs Andrew through the wall! Buffy continues to display a mixture of wariness and compassion, which I like.

Now for a line that causes a fair amount of fandom strife: ‘I have come to redefine the words pain and suffering since I met you’. This gets interpreted either as Spike victim-blaming her, or as him admitting that getting his soul – for/because of her - has given him a new understanding of pain and suffering in the sense of self-loathing and the torment of guilt. I’d go with the latter as the idea of him blaming her outright doesn’t quite square with the self-blame he is experiencing at that point. All the same I found Spike’s choice of phrasing rather curious. IMO it hews remarkably close to the Petrarchan poetic conventions of the ‘afflicted lover’. For anyone unfamiliar, the traditional Petrarchan voice is characterised as a male speaker, tormented to the point of virtual illness by his love for a woman. This mistress, often absent or unavailable is loved from afar and frequently characterised as emotionally distant or cruel, yet at the same time is idealised. There are clearly Petrarchan qualities to his love as a soulless being but from his choice of words here it seems that they persist - after all a soul only gives you the capacity to think, feel and act differently, it doesn’t automatically fix psychological or behavioural patterns especially if those were present in the original human. So while I don’t believe he is actually – or consciously – blaming her, I wonder if it’s possible to see him as still casting himself in the role of suffering lover, which kind of does blame her, if only inadvertently and perhaps on a textual level because it put the onus of action or inaction on that proffered love entirely on her.

What I think is a bit more understandably problematic is the line ‘You used me’. Again, I don’t see it as him actually blaming Buffy. It’s about him having now come to understand a bit better what Buffy was going through in S6 – it was about self-loathing. Before, he would insist that Buffy wanted or needed the darkness but now his soul has allowed him to achieve a greater clarity of perspective to understand that Buffy was using their sexual relationship as a form of self-harm. However, what we don’t get – and this is why I think people are put off by S7 Spike/Spuffy – is the equivalent from Buffy’s side. She never calls him out on his own behaviour during that time, which makes the path to a mending of their dynamic seem off-balance.*

Then we get to Spike’s ‘Amends’ moment. Buffy’s stance is consistent with her character – she views Spike with the same distinction she applied to Angel (even if the audience takes a different view) ‘Was it you who killed those people’/ Spike: ‘There’s no one else’/ ‘That’s not true’. *I suppose you could view Buffy’s maintenance of this distinction as the reason she doesn’t take him to task about the way he behaved with her – that she believes he is not to blame. But I can still see the problematics of this for the audience, especially as the distinction, at least in terms of speech patterns and some mannerisms is more clearly less pronounced for us and with the whole he’s-responsible-for-the-good-deeds issue.

‘You faced the monster inside of you and you fought back. You risked everything to be a better man’ – I’m not sure if Buffy is referring to his coming back to his senses in the basement in ‘Sleeper’ or his actual soul quest. I prefer to think it’s the former since if we take it to be the soul-quest it raises the problem of defining the soul (is the monster inside him + some unspecified ‘humanity’, or is he the monster – which leads to the usual questions of how much agency and choice he had then yadda yadda…big argument for another day). The basement stuff makes more sense too since she actually saw him do it.

I’m going to go with @Taaroko’s take on why Buffy insists he’s a better man at this stage. She’s telling him what he needs to believe in himself, so that he can actually go on to be a better man. It might even also be partly a case of practicality as well, tying into this impending doom they’re all feeling. Buffy knows she can’t continue to have Spike as a liability especially with some external force affecting things so she’s trying to give him the strength to take control himself.

Going back over MF’s review of this episode, I was reminded of the controversy over Spike’s insistence on his former viciousness and depravity and whether it amounts to a retcon. I have stated many times before that I felt the writing of Spike became a little too sympathetic, too softened at times during S5 & 6 and I feel like this was a case of the writers sheepishly acknowledging that. I also think they were also trying to back up their decision to give him a soul (since many fans believed he deserved redemption even without one) by reinforcing the distinction between his unsouled and souled selves. I personally have never believed Spike as incapable of viciousness. He was after all introduced with a reputation of torturing victims with railroad spikes and was in many ways presented as quite a hyperviolent character as well as a pathetically romantic one. I’ve never taken the whole ‘honorable killer/fighter’ view of him either (I really don’t like as I find it too extenuating), so I actually appreciated the writing effort.

However I’m not sure it quite works; it feels a bit of a case of too little, too late since we’ve gone multiple seasons with a neutered, harmless, occasionally helpful Spike whose only previous serious past crime referenced since probably S2 is Nikki Wood. MF provides a good sampling of views on his blog which attest to this - one commenter rather startlingly describes Spikes as ‘a regular bloke who happens to be vampire’. I can recall reading some pretty angry reactions by some fans who were outraged by the implications of rape and torture of young girls here (I guess in a similar way to how some fans believed the AR was out-of-character for him) and though they’re probably a relative minority section, it does illustrate my point that we weren’t given a good enough balance of his seriously violent and destructive side alongside his lighter one, which naturally encouraged a lot of people to see him as a fairly decent and sympathetic person.

Other thoughts:

- My love for Dawn continues. She’s so refreshingly matter-of-fact, almost channelling Anya. ‘Her exact words were, "I've got stuff coming out of both ends."’ Please stay this way, Dawn.

- I like the running gag of the house constantly being destroyed and Xander having to keep fixing it.

- Loved Willow nerd-threatening Andrew.

-I was quite affected by the scene where Wood buries Jonathan. It was harsh seeing his body so casually disposed of. Poor guy did not deserve that.

-Uptick on the religious imagery towards the end, foreshadowing Caleb’s arrival later. QT the Jerkface (thanks @Grace) quotes ‘Proverbs 24:6 and TF gives Spike a nice little crucifixtion as it is by it’s own admission ‘a sucker for the old classics’.

- The Turkey Khan (yes, I’m going with this too @dcai0830) is genuinely terrifying. It’s supposed to be from a kind of primitive Hell, yet it wears pretty hardy leather armour – I guess evil really does love leather…?

Bring on the Night:

- Nice little callback by Xander to ‘Life Serial’s mummy hand

- So good to have both Juliet Landau and Kristine Sutherland back again. Landau does a great job at playing Dru-not-quite-Dru. I like the ‘daddy’ mistake. I know a lot of people think Joyce was kind of a bad mother (though I don’t – at least not really) but you have to admit it was nice to see her again. Even if it was just a dream/ The First – it can control dreams, remember – and was being manipulative, I immediately got a sense of warmth on sight of KS. Buffy herself looked younger, softer and more vulnerable in those scenes.

- Love that Dawn is into the violence with Anya.

- Giles is back! Woohoo! But also not, because of what happens later. The Potentials get in the way of a Buffy/Giles hug – possibly signalling the rift that is to come. ‘The knowledge had to be protected. There was no time for bureaucracy or debate. ‘Two things: Giles is clearly being positioned as metaphorical representative for the WC – it’s their knowledge he is guarding. Foundations for scary-utilitarian Giles are also being laid down.
But, given my theory about how the Giles-is-The-First fakeout is a metaphorical clue, I do think that it actually makes sense. It focuses the ideas of the Watchers' Council into Giles, a character we know and love, instead of in Quentin Travers the Jerkface & Co. Buffy has never had much problem rejecting the Council. But Giles is a different story — she's defied him before but never really rejected him.
*sigh* I'm going to hold off on total judgement about Giles' arc until I'm further into the season but I will say that while I think Giles as metaphor for the final patriarchal barrier is a great one in theory, the problem for me is that it feels like his character had to be stripped of much of the nuance and facets of his personality in order to make it work.

- TF seems to be wasting a lot of time and energy on one vampire and it’s not quite clear why. Spike has shown a great deal of resistance to its influence and yet it continues to try and break him down. I get that this is Evil’s MO, but are we supposed to believe that TF the thing that by Giles’ admission ‘has endless resources’, is banking so heavily on Spike turning against Buffy and the Scoobies? The drowning attempts were ridiculous though – did the writers forget?

- Wood’s conversation with Buffy ‘once you see true evil’ sets us up for the upcoming Wood/Spike confrontation, cemented nicely by the immediate cut to Spike

- It feels abit contrived that Buffy knowingly faces the ubervamp again without a weapon of any kind!! It’s like she’s forgotten axes and swords even exist. I know the whole point is that we see her beaten and vulnerable but it just seemed overdone to me. She could easily have gone out with a weapon of some kind and still been defeated by ubie.

- Buffy’s speech at the end was great, actually. I’d been kind of dreading it because of how speech-heavy I remember this season being, but SMG just delivers it wonderfully. Her voice is tiny yet measured and firm. I got chills.
 
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SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Glad you see the Petrarchan angle too! I've often felt that way - there are so many similarities!
But that's partly the point the episode is trying to make. That's why we have that shot of her phone lying abandoned yet ringing on the grass as Dawn tries to reach her. Buffy should be making connections with her loved ones but her sense of isolation leaves her feeling unable to. I'm not sure I understand your argument that she 'should know better'.
It's the 3rd Season of her doing this, that's the problem. She has been drifting from her friends since S5 and instead let a soulles demon whisper poison in her ear. Buffy unburdening herself to things who can't understand what plagues her soul is just stupid by this point. If S7 was supposed to be better than S6 and a return to the old days, then they have clearly forgotten what the old days were like.
 
Ok I am behind here but trying hard and now getting to
Same Time, Same Place

Well, what can I say? If I were doing this rewatch on the Back Steps, I would deploy my trusty Spuffometer. On this magical device - an essential aid for a Spuffling - I would analyse each episode in detail for Spuffiness, no matter how minuscule the trace may be. I would then rate said episode according to its metre reading.

But I'm not on the Back Steps, so I shall just confine myself to saying that on rewatching I am reminded of why from a Spuffy perspective I repressed the memory of it all these years. Because the Spuffometer took a nosedive into the red.

Anyway, onwards and upwards - or should that be downwards.

Is Willow doing a Marcy? No, it's more complex than that. Her friends don't see her and she doesn't see them. It's a really intriguing premise and the whole episode is cleverly written, especially the scene in the basement where only Spike seems to be able to see the whole picture. But he doesn't make sense so nobody pays attention to him.

The scene at the airport is touching, with the welcome committee feeling nervous. There is a great deal to enjoy and be absorbed by in this episode.
I love that Xander didn't for one moment believe that Willow had murdered the flayed guy. Buffy doubted briefly but only briefly, and that's understandable. She wants to have faith in Willow. When she and Willow finally do talk, there's a lot to think about. Where do they go from here?
Love Dawn doing the research.
The monster itself is disgusting and horrible - but serves more than just MOTW purpose. It taunts Willow with her innermost fear of rejection. Redemption will be a hard road for her.
Anya having to file flight plans for teleportation- that is laugh out loud funny. And the please stop hitting me with my rib cages line. Thank you, Jane E. I feel for Anya. Willow has destroyed her livelihood. She loved that shop. Now she doesn't even have the demon calling down pat anymore. Vengeance is not fulfilling anymore. She clearly feels uneasy about everything, not just her own status.
If Xander really gave his crew a day off each time something odd happened, wouldn't he be bankrupt by now?
In the end the gang defeat the monster, who is also the metaphor for their isolation from eachother. But they have help in doing it. And therein lies my problem -
Spike: "I'm insane, what's his excuse?"
The gang turn to Spike once again for assistance, a regression to S5, but this time with an extra crispy topping of complications and ill-feeling.
In Entropy Anya is forthright - she's only hooking up with Spike because she's drunk and he smells really good. (sidebar - Old Spice, anyone? Just me, then?). Anyway, we know he takes pride in his appearance and personal grooming, nice hair, painted nails, etc.
But in the scene where Spike leads them to the demon, Buffy makes a throwaway remark about tagging themselves to the smelly vampire. I have so many issues with this, I hardly know where to start. But I shall start by saying this inexorably reminded me of the nasty scene in The Wish where Harmony took Cordelia to Jonathan, giggling and knowing she was humiliating her old friend.
It hasn't been so long since the gang were the outsiders and rejects at school, for no other reason than they didn't fit in. They should know what it's like to be teased and tormented for being different. In BY we once more see they are viewed as a group of misfits.
And yet here is Buffy, making an off-colour, unkind remark about Spike, who in his vulnerable crazy state is clearly less than what he was. And she thinks it's ok to poke fun at that? Even if I hadn't wanted to see them together I would find this repugnant behaviour. Yes, they had a volatile, difficult and fractured relationship. To put it mildly.

But she is better placed than anyone to know his state of mind and she knows now what has happened, after he spilled the beans about his soul. And I always have thought of her as a compassionate soul. But shame on you, Buffy. Making fun of someone not in their right mind. To me, that's on a par with mocking someone for the colour of their skin, their hair colour. Or even being overweight, something you could argue they might have more control over.
At this point, even as a self-confessed, dyed-in-the-wool Spike and Buffy shipper, I was wondering why I would ever want them back together. Buffy was worse than angry - she was indifferent and uncaring.

So the episode was really good and moving from the perspective of seeing the gang together. Anya is a delight, as always. Dawn is coming into her own. The stuff with Buffy and Spike just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
 
Showtime:

So, Willow and Kennedy sleep in Joyce's old room. I would have liked if they had another girl there. That girl would be sleeping and the whole scene could still happen. The writers are trying so hard to have a Willow/Kennedy tension moment, but if Willow was so uncomfortable, then get the other girls to sleep on the bed. It's also so rude to have them sleeping downstairs on the floor when there's enough space in the bed.

Xander stays over at Buffy's to guard the potentials. Later, when we get more potentials, Xander is gonna have them stay at his apartment.

Anya and Giles meet the Botox's Eye thing and Anya realizes the reason The First has gotten stronger was because she and Willow, Xander and Tara had brought Buffy back. It was their fault. But do the gang talk about this? No. This is where S7 fails so much. No one talks to anyone. We don't get to see what characters feel about things. Xander and Willow should have been informed about this.

I really dislike the Spike-torture scenes because I don't get why the First kidnapped Spike in the first place. Why? You already can control him. Why not kidnap Willow? Torture her to the point where she can't use her powers anymore. Kidnap Dawn? Kill her, that'll drive the Slayer nuts.

I also found it interesting that the First never bothered to deal with Xander, which works well for Buffy as seen in the last episode when the First possessed Willow's body and focused all its attention on Buffy and didn't notice Xander who grabbed the urn and broke it to free Willow. I wish more was done with this. Xander saving the gang more since the First isn't paying any attention to him. (I guess Caleb taking away Xander's eye was the First paying attention, but it was too subtle and just like Xander's "arc" this season which even Nicholas Brendon didn't get (commentary of Dirty Girls))

One of Xander's tiny, subtle, unnoticeable arcs this season is being the parent of the gang (along with Buffy). In this episode, we see Buffy and Xander going to a motel to get the new baby Slayer except she was dead and they had already seen her in the house. (This is the first time I'm impressed with the First. Yes, do stuff like that, instead of wasting time torturing Spike for God knows why.)

One of the most embarrassing bloopers is the thread held to the front door while the gang was waiting for Mr. Super Strong to have the too visible thread to pull the plastic door down. So nice, directors.

I also enjoyed the telepathy scene between Buffy, Xander and Willow.

I liked the final Spuffy scene. It was so sweet to see someone giving a damn about Spike.

4/10 One point for all the Dawn scenes. One point for the telepathy scene. One point for the Eve plotline with Xander and Buffy. And one point for the Spuffy scene in the end.
 
But in the scene where Spike leads them to the demon, Buffy makes a throwaway remark about tagging themselves to the smelly vampire. I have so many issues with this, I hardly know where to start. But I shall start by saying this inexorably reminded me of the nasty scene in The Wish where Harmony took Cordelia to Jonathan, giggling and knowing she was humiliating her old friend.
It hasn't been so long since the gang were the outsiders and rejects at school, for no other reason than they didn't fit in. They should know what it's like to be teased and tormented for being different. In BY we once more see they are viewed as a group of misfits.
And yet here is Buffy, making an off-colour, unkind remark about Spike, who in his vulnerable crazy state is clearly less than what he was. And she thinks it's ok to poke fun at that? Even if I hadn't wanted to see them together I would find this repugnant behaviour. Yes, they had a volatile, difficult and fractured relationship. To put it mildly.

But she is better placed than anyone to know his state of mind and she knows now what has happened, after he spilled the beans about his soul. And I always have thought of her as a compassionate soul. But shame on you, Buffy. Making fun of someone not in their right mind. To me, that's on a par with mocking someone for the colour of their skin, their hair colour. Or even being overweight, something you could argue they might have more control over.
At this point, even as a self-confessed, dyed-in-the-wool Spike and Buffy shipper, I was wondering why I would ever want them back together. Buffy was worse than angry - she was indifferent and uncaring.

Technically Buffy's more distant attitude is a bit of a continuity error here. The ending of 'Beneath You' was reshot after this epsiode had been filmed, which is why her reaction to Spike seems a little discordant.

But even disregarding this and taking the story as it is presented to us, I think you're being a bit harsh on Buffy. I never once saw her as making fun of him; it's not like she pointing at him and laughing 'haha check out the stinky vampire'. It certainly isn't anywhere near the same level as persistent high-school bullying. Nevertheless while she might feel compassion for him knowing he has soul, I think it's important to remember that at this point she doesn't really know who this Spike is because she's only ever interacted with an unsouled Spike, so I think it makes sense for her to still be distant and cautious. Also in this scene she's also with Xander and Dawn, who don't yet seem to know that Spike does actually have his soul back, so it may also be a case of Buffy maintaining a distance while in their presence so as not to have them ask questions until she can reveal the information properly. As for her her compassion, she actually doesn't display it immediately this season, despite the ending of Beneath You suggesting that's what's going to happen. She continues to be wary, even to the point of harshness, of him for a few episodes after this.

Showtime:

I have in my notes ‘better than Bring on the Night’ but I have no idea why I wrote that now (note to self: make proper notes!)

I also have the word ‘dry’ written down… I’m not even sure if that has anything to do with the episode. Perhaps I was half asleep when I watched this…😕

-I quite like Rona’s introduction. Good to see another non-white face in the mix.

- Nice callback to Buffy’s graduation day scooby meeting with her suggestion of ‘germs’ as a way to kill the Turok-Han

-Spike: @Mylie, nice point about the white/black clothing difference between dream and First Buffy.

I don't get why the First kidnapped Spike in the first place. Why? You already can control him.
Exactly what I was thinking. Although perhaps it's trigger plan is compromised by the fact that everyone, Spike himself included, knows about the trigger. Perhaps TF was depending on being able to trigger him stealthily to kill members of the Scooby gang? Now that that plan is shot, it seems to want to turn him to the dark side, so to speak,, maybe use him as a willing/cooperative undercover agent rather than a mind-controlled sleeper-agent?

-Giles: I know they were initially setting up the idea that he might be the First with how he doesn’t touch anything, but I’m pretty sure that I saw him lean against the wall and heard the sound of his shoes against the floor in BOTN.

-Team Ganya!!

-Andrew: I’ve realised that more than finding him funny or even annoying, I actually find him rather disturbing. He lacks any sort of self-awareness let alone remorse for killing Jonathan (I can’t remember if this is ever dealt with adequately in the season aside from Buffy forcing him to admit it) and he seems to view the world through his own fantasy lens. Noel Murray at the AV club remarked that he wasn’t sure Andrew even knows what the word ‘kill’ means and I think he makes a good point there. His belief that Jonathan is in a ‘place of joy and peace’ in BOTN is more than just naivete or gullibility; it really speaks to his inability to distinguish fantasy from reality. This is consistent with his character as a comic/fantasy obsessed nerd who has come off the back of spending the last year or more in the detached-from reality bubble of the Trio but I actually find him more frightening here because he is now removed from Warrren’s (evil) shadow and we’re forced to see him on his own rather than as an accessory to Warren’s much more obvious dangerous violence and misogyny. He really comes across to me as a hollow centre wrapped in layers of nerd, and it’s that void that is disconcerting.

Most of the Bad for me revolves around the Potentials (surprise surprise!):

- Kennedy ‘big scary Willow. That’s something I’d almost like to see’ *slaps her*. Other than this, Kennedy is doing anything terribly annoying or aggravating but I still don’t like her. It might be the acting or the fact that as a veteran viewer I know how she’s going to turn out to be.

-ARGH! STOP WITH THE BAD BRITISH ACCENT! My ears hurt. And Eve – is that even a real accent? I did enjoy the twist with her character, though.

-I also found their dialogue in the basement scene pretty flat.

One thing I forgot to mention in my review for 'Sleeper' - All those people Trigger!Spike buried in the basement were turned to dust, which means those victims' families will never find out what happened to them. 🙁
 
debbicles
debbicles
Thanks EL I've tried to reply to you
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flow
Oh, I didn`t know that STSP was shot before the Curch Scene. And your further Explanation makes so much sense as well. Thanks !
The Killer In Me

I don't have a lot to say about this episode. I'm not particularly fond of it. It has some good moments, but it suffers for a couple of different reasons :

- While Willow's storyline is compelling and I'm enjoying Willow/Kennedy (Kennedy is so charming) a lot, I really dislike Adam Busch's acting and it takes me out of the story a couple of times. Alyson Hannigan is so good though, especially in that last scene!

- Amy being the villain of the week was weak writing. It wasn't set up well at all.

- The Buffy/Spike stuff was kind of boring and unmemorable.

- The scoobies stuff with Giles was fun but it ended up going nowhere so it was all unnecessary.

I think my favorite scene was Buffy teasing Willow about bringing tea to Kennedy. It was kind of adorable and I loved seeing that playful dynamic between them and that Buffy noticed there was something there.

Overall, I'm not a fan of this episode but I also don't hate it.

My ranking :
Selfless
Same Time, Same Place
Lessons
Potential
Conversations With Dead People
Him
Never Leave Me
Showtime
Bring On the Night
Help
The Killer In Me
Sleeper
Beneath You
 
Now for a line that causes a fair amount of fandom strife: ‘I have come to redefine the words pain and suffering since I met you’. This gets interpreted either as Spike victim-blaming her, or as him admitting that getting his soul – for/because of her - has given him a new understanding of pain and suffering in the sense of self-loathing and the torment of guilt. I’d go with the latter as the idea of him blaming her outright doesn’t quite square with the self-blame he is experiencing at that point.

The line is “Meaning I have come to redefine the words pain and suffering since I fell in love with you.” The reason I read this to mean that the "pain and suffering" refer to his time pre-soul is because he fell in love with her long before he got the soul.

Potential

I always think this episode is called Potentials (as in the potentials) but its not, its about having potential and being a potential.

I see where Spike and Buffy are in a better place now. She has come a long way from feeling skiddish at his touch. And now she is showing that she cares about him. She is obviously struggling with her feelings about him (given the conversation she had with Amanda). So this is kinda the beginning of the post soulage Spuffy.

Are they trying to say that potential slayers have some abilities just because they could be called? They are stronger, faster etc?

Chaka Khan! (Turkey Khan is better!)

I find this extremely lazy writing to have Buffy give a speech about how TF has "backed off" for a bit because she beat the Turkey Khans and for that convenient reason "Means we probably don't have to worry about it pulling Spike's strings for a while." Ok but - come on the guy needs to be chained up or something right? He has a trigger he has killed before. What were they thinking letting him near these potentials in training sessions when his chip could be activates and he could've snapped the potential's neck? He could kill Willow or Buffy? It's an easy fix too. Just put him in some chains until we know what the trigger is. Move the LMPTM episode up so we get that figured out sooner and make it so that he is not a danger anymore. Even if Buffy is all about protecting Spike right now, that's fair. But I can't get behind this plan.

I had those pants that Buffy is wearing. With the wide belt band with the clips that sit low on your hips. It made me nostalgic.

Where is this demon bar? Where is Willies? Sometimes this feels like a very different show and this is one of those times.

Dawn. Dawnie Dawn Dawn. "I'll take this one." She isn't making the all together smart decision by going after a vampire on her own. But I think she finally feels she has a mission and a purpose and she wants to be helpful. She is incredibly brave if a little foolish but she is Buffy's sister after all. I'm with her though for all of it. Her journey is relatable. I think I'm connecting more to Dawn this season than Buffy (weird... because I was never a big Dawn fan). Except - I just really hate MT's shrieky yelling. :/

This is interesting perspective that Buffy shares and Spike reacts to: "Vampires can live anywhere. Any way they want. Taste, fashions, living conditions—they can vary. The animal inside, always the same. (Spike looks at Buffy and frowns)." Does Buffy really believe this? I don't even think I believe this. The demon varies a great deal. They are all evil but the way they execute their evil varies greatly (Angelus to Darla to Dru to Spike). Does Spike not agree with this? Does he also believe he was unique and special?

I also picked up on some contrast between Buffy and Dawn in the dialogue, but I might be reading too much into it.

Buffy: And some of us will die in this battle. Decide now that it's not going to be you.
Dawn: We're gonna get out of this. Both of us. Alive.

Buffy: What do you know? Right now, the only thing you know for sure is you got me. (LEAVES)
Dawn: Look, I've got your back, but this is something you have to do.

I have been thinking alot about this since you posted it and even more so now that I'm seeing the episode. If we think back to s5, Dawn represents Buffy's humanity. Dawn was literally made from Buffy. Same blood etc. Dawn living was important because Buffy needed her to have the opportunity to live. The more Buffy becomes the Slayer the less time she seems to invest in her human side. She is much more slayer now than she is "just a girl." Conversely, this episode is about how Dawn is "just a girl." The dichotomy between Buffy the Slayer and Buffy the girl are very pronounced and are reflected in the parallel scenes. And what's more is we see the disconnect between Buffy and Dawn. Buffy has no clue that Dawn feels left out or alienated or not special. Buffy isn't connecting with Dawn. Buffy isn't connecting with her humanity.

I'm not OK with Buffy locking the potentials in with the vamp. What if one of them would have died? How would she have felt about that? I understand if she would have stood back and not fought and let them take the vamp on themselves but to lock them in there? Also - we don't get to see that fight?? Although I think now would be a good time to mention if any of those potentials died I wouldn't really give a crap. I don't like them, I don't know them.

No joke - in the last scene with Dawn, I cried a little. When she says "Amanda, listen to me. Remember when you said I was special? Well, I'm not. But the thing is, you are. This is your battle, Amanda." Dawn is amazing. She is showing so much emotional maturity here. And she is so very special! And then Xander's speech. "You're extraordinary." It was a beautiful moment. I am here for all of that.

What's going on with Willow? How is she doing? We don't get much from her here except she did a spell and thought it failed (weird because she is super powerful).
 
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The line is “Meaning I have come to redefine the words pain and suffering since I fell in love with you.” The reason I read this to mean that the "pain and suffering" refer to his time pre-soul is because he fell in love with her long before he got the soul.
Ah yes, thanks for the correction. Silly me. And yes I do think he is referring to his time pre-soul and actually the point I made in the rest of the paragraph fits the correct line better.
 
Hey Earth Logic, I tried to quote your post about my comments on STSP, but annoyingly I couldn't get your comments to show up in a box. So I'm going to have to do this from memory and I apologise in advance for any errors and omissions. I'll go back and give karma instead.
First of all, a big thank you. I really appreciate what you said. I did try at the time the show aired to use those very arguments you use about how Buffy is being wary around Spike and doesn't know if she can trust him. I really did try. I am and was, as I constantly and boringly proclaim, an ardent supporter of this relationship, if only because that is what Spike wants. If I could at the time have had a poster made up a la Fox Mulder with "I Want to Believe" as the legend and Spike/Buffy in a loveheart, well, you get the picture.

Caution and wariness, all those good things and quite natural, I would have completely understood. But her comment about the state he was in went beyond those, I found it mean. It showed me that she had zero respect or regard for him and made me question the previous season. It gave me no pleasure at the time and even with all that has transpired since, it still upsets me. I know I may be judging her harshly, but I did so most reluctantly. Heck, in lieu of that, I would have been happier back then if they'd reverted to being mortal enemies then at least matters would have been unequivocal and it would have been a tad more logical than what was unfolding. It would not have been what I actually wanted to see but it might have made more sense. Spike would have been a total outcast and would have had to carry out some even more grand gesture to prove himself. I don't know, I'm just rambling.
Anyway, thanks again for trying, but sadly my opinion still stands after all these years.
 
Loving all the participation, everyone! This is great! Please continue to post your thoughts no matter where you are in the season.

Week Six
First Date
Get It Done
 
The Killer in Me

- So is Buffy sick or is SMG sick?
- Willow sounds sick too.
- At least Spike is smart about chaining himself up. Good job Spike.
- I had forgotten how much Spike is made the damsel in distress this season. First it was the I'm crazy, then it was I'm killing people, then it was I've been kidnapped by the First, now it's the chip malfunction. But no worries Buffy is there to save the day!
- I should give Kennedy the benefit of the doubt she keeps saying things that make me want to punch her but some of it is because she doesn't know about how Willow just lost a great love.
- So Kennedy just called magic "fairy tale crap" ... how romantic.
- I don't see good chemistry between the Kennedy and Willow.
- I find it very cool that Xander and Anya can work together so well despite their history. I think its a tad hard to believe it would be this easy but I like it nevertheless. It cuts down on the drama.
- "To help "assface" here ma'am." I just shared a gif set about this scene on tumblr. This is one of the few times Riley and I are on the same page. Haha.
- I love Willow's monologue in the final scene but I'm not sure why Kennedy's kiss breaks the hex. It's heartbreaking to see Willow's pain. For me, the rule in this show has always been if Willow hurts, I hurt.

I'm really trying to put my finger on why I'm not connecting with Buffy in the last few episodes because there has been a shift. Somewhere between Lessons and CWDP she lost me. And it's not just the Spike stuff. I never liked Riley all that much nor did I really want to see Buffy with Riley but I still loved her so it can't just be me not liking the present pairing that I'm being force fed.

Specifically in this episode she just feels off. She feels flat in affect and tone. Here is it because SMG is tired or sick? I know the way the scenes are blocked and with what Buffy is saying that I'm supposed to gather that she cares about Spike and what is happening to him. But it's all rather subdued and muted? I'm not sure if that is a product of the directing, SMG's acting, or maybe she wasn't feeling well this episode. Part of me wonders if this is a directing choice. We don't want Buffy to look overtly caring or sympathetic to Spike because we are supposed to gather that her feelings about him are confusing. But he is in a great deal of pain, we have seen Buffy in the way she behaves when her love interests are in trouble/pain etc and this one feels very different. And I do wonder if this is intentional or incidental. This is just me thinking out loud.

Aside from the final scene with Willow where she is so vulnerable and hurting, I don't like this episode.
 
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"The Killer me" is an episode I love just for the Willow's story. The ending was such emotional even though Adam Busch is not as great as Alyson and even if Kennedy is not a character I particularly like, somewhere I'm kinda grateful that she brings a little of happiness to Willow. And it's good to see Willow's culpability to having killed Warren, see her express her feeling toward Tara's death, it's just a release for me, like she finally express something she had in her heart since too much long time.
However, the Spike/Buffy stuff is not interesting for me, that's by far the weakest part of the episode for me.
 
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