BtVS Season 7 Rewatch

Oh, man, @dcai0830, now you've caught up to me and I can't feel superior anymore! 😉

Is there a distinction between the Shadow Men infusing slayers with power and Buffy sharing her power and if so what is that distinction? (when I'm done with my review I'll go read ya'lls reviews to see what MF's says on this because I am curious if I'm missing something).

MF doesn't really get into this until Chosen since he tries to avoid spoilers. But I think he sees the distinction as Buffy unlocking the power that was already within the potentials -- giving them access to power that had been artificially constrained. (I don't think it works fully, but it's an interesting argument.)
 
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
Only caught up cause you kicked my butt into gear yesterday! ;)
Get it Done

There is so much in this episode to talk about.... so so so much.
- I will always be just a little of a Spike/Anya shipper. I think they have much in common and I love their banter.
- LOL at Willow with the cover-up story.
- Spike: "Yeah, I went to great lengths. Lots of trouble, and now I'm unique. Well, more or less." Yes Spike we get it, it's a BFD. Are you going to tell everyone you meet or??


Hey there, dcai, I agree with an awful lot of your points. But I'm so far behind that goodness knows when I'll get to this episode. And I'm sorry but I couldn't let this stand.
It wasn't Spike who has been going round telling anyone about his soul. Earlier in this scene he turns to Buffy and says something like this - "that was very private, and what, you're (Buffy) telling everyone??!"
He's angry that while he's still trying to work out what it all means, Buffy is announcing it. You could take it as her being proud of the fact, I expect. But he still has been trying to keep it himself.
And yes, you're right, Buffy never asked him to get his soul back.
But after having been told repeatedly over the years and last year especially that he didn't have a soul, that there was nothing good or clean in him, he wasn't a man, he was a thing, he couldn't love without a soul, I don't think it's not too much of a stretch to see that Spike concludes- quite logically, I think - that the souls matters to Buffy, in principle. So yes, it is a Big Deal.
Hopefully I'll carry on and be able to catch up sooner
 
oh I don't know what went wrong there but I lost my entire post. Sorry about that, I don't know how I did it. My reply is in the box.
 
@debbicles - I can't quote you properly because of the way your post came out so I'll have to quote the old fashioned way:

It wasn't Spike who has been going round telling anyone about his soul. Earlier in this scene he turns to Buffy and says something like this - "that was very private, and what, you're (Buffy) telling everyone??!"
He's angry that while he's still trying to work out what it all means, Buffy is announcing it. You could take it as her being proud of the fact, I expect. But he still has been trying to keep it himself.

What I am referring to in the first scene is not that Spike is telling the principal that he has a soul (I agree that Buffy does that) but I'm referencing Spike's need to inform us and anyone who will hear him out how incredibly arduous a process it was to go and get the soul. He continues to remind us what "great lengths" he went through - Beneath You, Never Leave Me are some other examples. That is a facet of his character that doesn't work for me, personally. (personal preferences and all that.) I completely understand Spike's being annoyed with Buffy telling Wood that he has a soul when it is fresh and new and he is just figuring it out himself. But at the same time, Wood goes around killing vampires for as a hobby. She needs to explain to Wood, as a matter of necessity, that this is a vampire he shouldn't kill and why that is so that Wood doesn't get stake happy. I think her reasons for telling him are pretty straightforward.
 
But does Spike really go around telling everyone? Don't we just see his conversations with Buffy? I don't think I can agree with this at all. In BY he slugs Anya when she's just about to spill the beans. I genuinely think he wants to keep it private. Oh well.
Edited to say yes, later in Get It Done, he does announce it in front of everyone, but he's still talking just to Buffy.
Again, apologies - I thought I had mastered the whole quote thing. That's going to teach me to post without adequate infusion of tea!
 
But does Spike really go around telling everyone? Don't we just see his conversations with Buffy?

Fair point. He tells Buffy and he tells Wood. You could argue that he also tells the entire room of potentials when Buffy calls him out - he could have just walked out the door but he stopped and said "I did this for you." Maybe he gets a pass because he was pissed at what Buffy was saying. He also has conversations about it in ats s5 as well. It's one too many times for me. I don't think he needs to tell anyone about all of the torture or the reasons he went through to get his soul. None of that is ever going to work for me. But again - its just a matter of personal preference.
 
Fair point. He tells Buffy and he tells Wood. You could argue that he also tells the entire room of potentials when Buffy calls him out - he could have just walked out the door but he stopped and said "I did this for you." Maybe he gets a pass because he was pissed at what Buffy was saying. He also has conversations about it in ats s5 as well. It's one too many times for me. I don't think he needs to tell anyone about all of the torture or the reasons he went through to get his soul. None of that is ever going to work for me. But again - its just a matter of personal preference.

Ok let's see if I get this quote thing to work, because I'm doing all the right things!!
Ah yes, I know we've chatted about Spike's Angel issues, and they are worthy of an entire conversation by themselves, and he certainly does throw it in Angel's face later on. I think I'll cover this when I get to my review later.
Wow it worked.
 
But does Spike really go around telling everyone? Don't we just see his conversations with Buffy? I don't think I can agree with this at all. In BY he slugs Anya when she's just about to spill the beans. I genuinely think he wants to keep it private. Oh well.

Edited to say yes, later in Get It Done, he does announce it in front of everyone, but he's still talking just to Buffy.

I haven't watched this episode for a few months so apologies for any mistakes. Re: the last point "he's still talking just to Buffy". As I recall, the camerawork suggests as much. It's an incredibly "charged" scene. If I remember, there's just one cut away to Dawn and the Potentials (looking as though they'd rather be anywhere else than in this room) otherwise, it's a shot reverse shot between the two of them (there may be one shot where the camera moves in on Spike as he moves towards the camera). They seem to forget the Potentials are actually there. How would it have culminated in S6? Probably in an actually fight or sex - here the exchange is verbal (but – I think - unrestrained). IMO, this conversation, for various reasons, should have taken place in private.

What I think has been happening is, the "split" between Buffy and Slayer (Amanda's "high functioning schizophrenia") has been getting wider (it will culminate in Spike bringing them back together in Touched). The Slayer needs Spike for instrumental reasons - Buffy for more personal ones. It’s made clear in First Date: “BUFFY No, you have to stay. SPIKE You've got another demon fighter now. BUFFY That's not why I need you here. SPIKE Is that right? Why's that then? BUFFY 'Cause I'm not ready for you to not be here”. She’s either not ready to say why – or she genuinely doesn’t know. Much of what happens from here is down to how we read, “Why does everybody in this house think I'm still in love with Spike?”.

In the basement, she says, "I'm showing him our operation. Us." The shooting script has a beat before "us". On transmission, she emphasises it. Beginning with Potential, there’ve been non-verbal clues that speak of the physicality between them. Physicality works on different levels – sometimes it alludes to utility/familiarity – sometimes more - familiarity/comradeship. Gradually, the text has been lessening the space (actual space and inter-subjective space) between them (this culminates in Touched). Previously, we’ve seen parapraxis (Freudian slips) on her part. Here, the clues are becoming more overt – more conscious. He’s unwilling to pick up on them. This is partly, I think, the residue of S6 - he feels/knows he "read" some signs badly and the process culminated in the AR. He’s desperately trying to avoid repeating misreading again (does it feed into the ILY? IDK). Language in S7 is related explicitly to Logos – an ocularcentric Logos the text reveals is unstable.

The shooting script has this from Anya: "You're a man. With a soul, and other working parts, and it's not like Buffy's been sending any your way lately so I just thought..." Even without this remark, it clear, this is an episode concerned with Spike's "bone" and desire (desire in its many manifestations; what the “bone” means to him and her, both personally and in terms of the slayer achieving her mission). Spike’s struggling articulating his masculinity - as the First Evil tells us in Lessons He’s "Trying to do what's right, just like her. You still don't get it. It's not about right, not about wrong...it’s about power”. Spike has a penis - defining him as male - but, as vampire, he's other and has no access to phallocentric masculinity, no access to structures of meaning, no power to define. In S6 he had only two ways of articulating his masculinity – warrior and lover and S6 ended badly. He’s barred these routes – blocked them off. We have to remember, not only is his soul new, so is his ego. In previous seasons, his sense of self was governed (primarily) by the pleasure principle and the Id. Here, his ego is reality testing. This is why he applies rational thinking to the incident with the demon, this is why he needs to clarify meaning for Buffy.

Back to this scene. As far as I can figure out, in the cuts between them, there's a lens change. When the camera cuts back to Spike, we see the real door and a representation of a door (the picture on the wall). The picture on the wall appears, then disappears from vision. Buffy says, "You keep holding back, you might as well walk out that door". Which door? The picture is (as I recall) of doors opening on to doors opening on to doors - it's mise-en-abyme – recursiveness, infinity, the unknown. Similarly – Spike moves in and out of a doorframe – doesn’t he? No one has mentioned the extent to which arches, doors, doorways, windows, architectural edges (all seen in the very first scene of the Lessons prologue) are recurring motifs. This is a season concerned with architectonics as form, function and content. It’s also concerned with “vision” (windows?) in all its manifestation including as a metaphor for the ontic-epistemic and in relation to visual forms of representation (it alludes to different films/paintings and – I think in this episode – to Plato’s cave). Most significant is perspective or viewing position in relation to the constitution of both subject and self (the “look”, the “gaze”). The “abysmal” door paintings feed into a whole nexus of meanings that forecast the void - and the absence of speech - in the very final scene. “Mise en abyme occurs within a text when there is a reduplication of images or concepts referring to the textual whole. Mise en abyme is a play of signifiers within a text, of sub-texts mirroring each other. This mirroring can get to the point where meaning may be rendered unstable and, in this respect, may be seen as part of the process of deconstruction”.

The real door leads down a well-trodden path - probably back to the pub and permitted forms of enjoyment. Look at what he says of “escape” to Anya: “Get up, get out, get drunk. Repeat as needed. It's just more elegant”. This isn’t escape – it’s entrapment - circular, stasis, no progression. I read this scene as her encouraging him to take that leap into the unknown - through the metaphoric door - just as she will later leap through the portal. However, unlike Buffy (brought back by Spike and the rest of the collective) he has only himself (and Buffy) to rein him in. This is a test in self-restraint. Can he establish boundaries without the chip? Yes – he can and, as he says, it’s “good for the soul”.

In short, she’s unlocking a door he’s closed to himself. She is licencing him a space to" enjoy" his masculinity - through violence, until another route become available (and I’m using enjoy with reference to Bakhtin and Lacan so I won’t dwell on it). That he has a “post-coital” cigarette after killing the demon brings sex and violence into juxtaposition. Watch the camera work in this scene and the cuts between one universe and another – these are match cuts. Is he fighting her (the Slayer? Or is he fighting with Buffy?). The text is collapsing time and space – it’s been hinting at this since the beginning. Look at the set – it’s the alleyway behind the magic box, I don’t think we’ve seen it since Afterlife when she put a prohibition on speech. Look at the mise-en-scene. I think the text is asking us to make our own recursion and revisit S6.

Okay - sorry @debbicles - TL😀R. Also - apologies for the lack of coherence. It's an incredibly over coded episode (as is all of S7). I can't fully explain my thoughts without going back to the beginning of the season. PS. I wonder if the text has him referring to the process of getting his soul in order establish what he thinks is the difference between him and Angel? However, by his own admittance, isn't (or it's not the ultimate difference): "Yeah, I went to great lengths. Lots of trouble, and now I'm unique. Well, more or less. Got myself a soul, whatever that means” (GiD). It’s not until Dirty Girls he asserts his singularity "I am nothing like Angel". LMPTM and The Storyteller lie in between the two statements. Dunno – just guessing.
 
debbicles
debbicles
The endless series of mirrors. I should have spotted the recursion. Thank you
I haven't watched this episode for a few months so apologies for any mistakes. Re: the last point "he's still talking just to Buffy". As I recall, the camerawork suggests as much. It's an incredibly "charged" scene. If I remember, there's just one cut away to Dawn and the Potentials (looking as though they'd rather be anywhere else than in this room) otherwise, it's a shot reverse shot between the two of them (there may be one shot where the camera moves in on Spike as he moves towards the camera). They seem to forget the Potentials are actually there. How would it have culminated in S6? Probably in an actually fight or sex - here the exchange is verbal (but – I think - unrestrained). IMO, this conversation, for various reasons, should have taken place in private.

What I think has been happening is, the "split" between Buffy and Slayer (Amanda's "high functioning schizophrenia") has been getting wider (it will culminate in Spike bringing them back together in Touched). The Slayer needs Spike for instrumental reasons - Buffy for more personal ones. It’s made clear in First Date: “BUFFY No, you have to stay. SPIKE You've got another demon fighter now. BUFFY That's not why I need you here. SPIKE Is that right? Why's that then? BUFFY 'Cause I'm not ready for you to not be here”. She’s either not ready to say why – or she genuinely doesn’t know. Much of what happens from here is down to how we read, “Why does everybody in this house think I'm still in love with Spike?”.

In the basement, she says, "I'm showing him our operation. Us." The shooting script has a beat before "us". On transmission, she emphasises it. Beginning with Potential, there’ve been non-verbal clues that speak of the physicality between them. Physicality works on different levels – sometimes it alludes to utility/familiarity – sometimes more - familiarity/comradeship. Gradually, the text has been lessening the space (actual space and inter-subjective space) between them (this culminates in Touched). Previously, we’ve seen parapraxis (Freudian slips) on her part. Here, the clues are becoming more overt – more conscious. He’s unwilling to pick up on them. This is partly, I think, the residue of S6 - he feels/knows he "read" some signs badly and the process culminated in the AR. He’s desperately trying to avoid repeating misreading again (does it feed into the ILY? IDK). Language in S7 is related explicitly to Logos – an ocularcentric Logos the text reveals is unstable.

The shooting script has this from Anya: "You're a man. With a soul, and other working parts, and it's not like Buffy's been sending any your way lately so I just thought..." Even without this remark, it clear, this is an episode concerned with Spike's "bone" and desire (desire in its many manifestations; what the “bone” means to him and her, both personally and in terms of the slayer achieving her mission). Spike’s struggling articulating his masculinity - as the First Evil tells us in Lessons He’s "Trying to do what's right, just like her. You still don't get it. It's not about right, not about wrong...it’s about power”. Spike has a penis - defining him as male - but, as vampire, he's other and has no access to phallocentric masculinity, no access to structures of meaning, no power to define. In S6 he had only two ways of articulating his masculinity – warrior and lover and S6 ended badly. He’s barred these routes – blocked them off. We have to remember, not only is his soul new, so is his ego. In previous seasons, his sense of self was governed (primarily) by the pleasure principle and the Id. Here, his ego is reality testing. This is why he applies rational thinking to the incident with the demon, this is why he needs to clarify meaning for Buffy.

Back to this scene. As far as I can figure out, in the cuts between them, there's a lens change. When the camera cuts back to Spike, we see the real door and a representation of a door (the picture on the wall). The picture on the wall appears, then disappears from vision. Buffy says, "You keep holding back, you might as well walk out that door". Which door? The picture is (as I recall) of doors opening on to doors opening on to doors - it's mise-en-abyme – recursiveness, infinity, the unknown. Similarly – Spike moves in and out of a doorframe – doesn’t he? ...

The real door leads down a well-trodden path - probably back to the pub and permitted forms of enjoyment. Look at what he says of “escape” to Anya: “Get up, get out, get drunk. Repeat as needed. It's just more elegant”. This isn’t escape – it’s entrapment - circular, stasis, no progression. I read this scene as her encouraging him to take that leap into the unknown - through the metaphoric door - just as she will later leap through the portal. However, unlike Buffy (brought back by Spike and the rest of the collective) he has only himself (and Buffy) to rein him in. This is a test in self-restraint. Can he establish boundaries without the chip? Yes – he can and, as he says, it’s “good for the soul”.

In short, she’s unlocking a door he’s closed to himself. She is licencing him a space to" enjoy" his masculinity - through violence, until another route become available (and I’m using enjoy with reference to Bakhtin and Lacan so I won’t dwell on it). That he has a “post-coital” cigarette after killing the demon brings sex and violence into juxtaposition. Watch the camera work in this scene and the cuts between one universe and another – these are match cuts. Is he fighting her (the Slayer? Or is he fighting with Buffy?). The text is collapsing time and space – it’s been hinting at this since the beginning. Look at the set – it’s the alleyway behind the magic box, I don’t think we’ve seen it since Afterlife when she put a prohibition on speech. Look at the mise-en-scene. I think the text is asking us to make our own recursion and revisit S6.
 
Argh it happened again after I did the last time. Sorry but I didn't manage to download the quote separately from my own post. Don't know why.
Anyway, thank you Tribel.
Willow also goes through her transition phase in this episode, doesn't she. Suddenly she feels comfortable with her powers.
Re Spike's bone ha! Doubt I would have had the cojones myself to make that reference. And I never made the connnection between going out to get drunk and the routes to rediscovering your mojo.
Thank you, as always, food for thought.
 
When I get around to my rewatch of Get It Done, I'm hoping to answer you, Tribel, properly.
 
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Storyteller

I wish I could come up with something interesting to say about Storyteller. I think it's brilliant. But my brain is not big enough. So I will merely make a few notes.

1) It's really worth reading Mark Field's essay on this one, and even better, in my view, to read the meta that influenced it, beer_good_foamy's "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer vs Buffy The Vampire Slayer." It's by far my favorite Buffyverse meta of all that I've read. [Side note: This meta is kind of why I (and I'm only partially kidding here) view the comics as a kind of Hell Dimension AU instead of an actual continuation of the series. For me, the real Buffy has been freed from the narrative (and even Joss Whedon) and is off living her life, not trapped in a series of mostly middling comics in which she's not allowed to really age or make new friends.]

2) This is one of the few episodes of the series to be directed by a woman. I counted six during a quick look at IMDB: two by Ellen S. Pressman (The Puppet Show and Inca Mummy Girl), two by Marti Noxon (Into the Woods and Forever), and two by Marita Grabiak, who directed this episode and End of Days. Grabiak was also, as far as I can tell, the only woman to direct on AtS. She directed five episodes.

3) In case you don't read Mark Field's essay, I'll just tell you that Jane Espenson apparently is the person who suggested a certain beverage be named Zima. (She used to work for a marketing firm.)
 
Mylie
Mylie
That essay is incredible! And why even with all its flaws, I cannot hate s7.
I wonder if the text has him referring to the process of getting his soul in order establish what he thinks is the difference between him and Angel? However, by his own admittance, isn't (or it's not the ultimate difference): "Yeah, I went to great lengths. Lots of trouble, and now I'm unique. Well, more or less. Got myself a soul, whatever that means”

I think this is true. Spike is considering whether he is unique or not within the context of Angel. But I think the answer is yes and no. He is because (whether I like it or not) his demon obtained the soul and he's not because he isn't the only vampire with a soul. Anyway, I think it does speak to his thought process at this juncture. Where does he fit in? He is having a bit of an identity crisis in this episode and considering another one of his kind who also has a soul like him suits his journey here.
 
Get it done

I don't really know what to say about this episode, other than it was painful to rewatch. I don't want to be too negative though so I'll just focus on an element that I'm struggling to make sense of.

So the dream at the beginning makes Buffy doubt herself ''it’s not enough'' and when Wood visits the headquarters and sees the potential, Buffy thinks he’s saying that their efforts aren’t enough. But that's not what he means and she’s putting words in his mouth which shows how much that dream has affected her. She says she won’t be able to save them all and then Chloe kills herself. You’d think this would make Buffy realize that since the first can easily attack within the group and have this kind of impact on them (enough so that they'd kill themselves), Buffy would be more careful about people and relationships... I think her way of reacting makes zero sense. I don't understand how someone can come to the conclusion that she needs to be tougher and ask more of people after seeing someone in her care just kill themselves. Not only does this make no sense to me strategically (is Buffy such a bad leader that she doesn't get how important it is to build a good moral within her army?), but it goes against what is so great about Buffy and feels so out of character. And right now, I feel like she’s doing the very worst possible thing she could do. I feel like this scene is Empty Places except the scoobies still want to follow her.

My ranking :
Selfless
Same Time, Same Place
Lessons
Potential
Conversations With Dead People
Him
Never Leave Me
Showtime
Bring On the Night
Help
The Killer In Me
First Date
Sleeper
Get it Done
Beneath You
 
thetopher
thetopher
Yep, like 'Empty Places' except with less casualties. :(
Bring on the Night

"Sorry to barge in. I'm afraid we have a slight Apocalypse." "Little girls tear so easily, like pink paper." Just in time for Christmas.

This episode is better than I remembered. I loved the reference to being stuck in a time loop as per Life Serisl. Poor Xander.
Joyce's various appearances are beautifully done. Her words are superficially comforting - Buffy needs rest, her friends put too much pressure on her, etc. It's pointless to resist the inevitable. Fortunately Buffy resists the temptation to think of her as real Joyce.
Scary Dawn reappears. She and Anya take too much pleasure out of hurting Andrew. And Andrew tied to the chair reminds me of Spike in S4.
Shut up, Andrew. Right here comes the gag, more S4 throwback.
And after Wood is mysteriously seen burying Jonathan at an oil field - Sunnydale really does have it all - in the previous episode, here he is in the basement. With a spade. The plot thickens. He must know about the goat-headed badness that is the Seal.
The moment the First materialises through Willow is genuinely frightening.
Molly's accent - very Dick Van Dyke. And I've never met or heard of anyone called Molly. How does Kennedy have the nerve to tell a complete stranger not to hog the covers?
The Slayer lineage here as described here by Buffy is less than clear. The gang finds out the Council is destroyed, but Glies has retrieved some fragments of their records.
Giles brings the exposition. Primal evil, that is the source of all evil. His words to Buffy sound eerily similar to those of First Joyce and dream Joyce. But some of his moments with Buffy are lovely, particularly when they say they've missed eachother.
The First must therefore be the author of the basic interrogation manual - break down, erase, attack values, destroy faith then rebuild/replace in own image. Doesn't it know that Spike doesn't care about physical pain? Not that it isn't good to see Dru back. And at least she says, like the Master in Lessons, that Spike has been trying to do the right thing.
True evil has serious after burn. Ok, what is Wood up to.
Spike was never Dru's Daddy - that dubious honour lies with Angel. So what on earth is First Dru going on about?
"Dru, love. Get bent." "Never figured you for existentialist thought, love. I mean, you hated Paris." Spike has chosen his side. Good to see you back, mate.
Willow is worried she won't be able to help. Lovely as Aly Hannigan is, I got annoyed with Willow's cutesy little speech.
Shut up, Kennedy.
For the first time in ages, Buffy faces a vampire immune to staking, but it still fears sunlight. Very Terminator-like.
"She believes in me." Cut from this to Buffy sitting alone, with Giles, Willow and Xander sounding scared offscreen. Spike has faith in Buffy, and while she is giving her "we just became an army" speech, a melody plays that sounds like the final battle theme in Chosen.
 
Showtime
Didn't really think much to this episode the first time round, and don't think too much of it on rewatch, either.
There are a few moments in it that work for me, but other than that...
So I'll just concentrate on what I enjoy and leave out the rest - with possibly one exception - because I'd like to save my energy for later on when I've got more to say. Bet you're glad to hear that!!! Haha.
I need to get the bad out of the way first - Kennedy's relentless siege of Willow is really annoying to me. does she get a pass because she is lesbian? Is this supposed to be charming, cute or, God forbid, empowering?? And I so hope Kennedy really does get a glimpse of Dark Willow, if only so she does get scared. I know, I'm a bad, rude person. But I don't think it looks as though Willow wants to be approached like this. Ugh.

Moving on: Spike's dream where he escapes. He badly wants to get out of his own accord, not relying on anyone else. But it's wishful thinking.
Anya realising that she, Willow, Xander and our late beloved Tara are responsible for the presence of the First Evil in this dimension. It's about time Anya was more than simple comic relief again.
Eve turning out to be First Evil infiltrator. That was really good, I thought.
Buffy referencing her lesson from Spike in Fool For Love.
The Thunder Dome set up for the fight with the what's it called. Even if the actual slaying is anti-climactic.
The final scene where Buffy rescues Spike. They both look badly beaten, he certainly looking the way he did after Glory thrashed him. He braces himself to be cut, but when she releases him from the first chain he grabs her shoulder. I love the look they exchange - White Knight to Damsel in Distress. Spike is relieved, overjoyed and overcome all at once. Buffy seems almost grief-stricken at the extent of his injuries. Then Spike gives himself a mental shake - he tells himself off for being a silly old soft vampire.
They go away together, Spike slumped on her shoulder, to the strains of something tender and melodious that sounds to me suspiciously derived from the theme in the closing scene of Smashed.
My Spuffometer zings upwards at this point.
 
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Looking fwd (eventually) to your views on First Date :) I will be posting on here soon re: S7
Nice one debbicles!
Wood is mysteriously seen burying Jonathan at an oil field
LOL! Evokes for me Chandler's The Big Sleep. "Sacrificing himself to serve a higher code of honor, Marlowe acts as the modern-day counterpart to the knight on the Sternwoods' stained glass window". BtVS has (IMO) alluded to Arthurian legend since the opening scene of Lessons (Westbury). The language of chivalry is alive and well in "Champion" - allusions to the Holy Grail and Sword in the Stone. It's the discourse of the troubadours adopted by Spike in S5.
And I've never met or heard of anyone called Molly.
"It is of Irish and Latin origin, and the meaning of Molly is "star of the sea". Pet form of Mary". Can we ignore this in a season full of Mariology? Madonna and Child, Mother of Sorrows etc.? Isn't Molly killed by Caleb (the severe father) with her own knife (I'm ignoring obvious Freudian references) just after he kills Diane (virgin goddess of childbirth and women)? Again, there've been allusions to Greek Myth (Cassie, Eros, Psyche) - just as there'll be allusions to Orpheus and Eurydice. Makes you wonder just how far back Whedon's "beginning" is. There'll be reference to Tara (Terra/Gaia) McClay and it will culminate in Willow's White Goddess (which takes us straight back to Graves (White Goddess of Birth, Love and Death), then Joseph Frazer (probably Campbell) and certainly Freud. Graves used the idea of analeptic thought (important for both Buffy and Spike and implicit in all the "call-backs"). What I think we're seeing is mytho-poetic ideas of Woman as prototypical religion, as poetic muse (true in Spike's story), matriarchal theology...blah..blah...blah.....
Spike was never Dru's Daddy - that dubious honour lies with Angel. So what on earth is First Dru going on about?
"Never figured you for existentialist thought, love. I mean, you hated Paris."
LOL! I haven't thought this one through so bear with me. I wondered whether Dru was conflating all the Daddies in her life - as Spike has/is similarly conflating mothers? What if Paris refers not to the city but to Paris of myth and the Trojan War? I'm thinking of the story behind Ruben's "Judgement of Paris" . Ties in nicely with "Spike has chosen his side" and all the other art references the season makes.

Did I mention I like Season 7? 🙂
 
The Thunder Dome set up for the fight with the what's it called. Even if the actual slaying is anti-climactic.
. It's spectacle - it's death that's meant to be seen. It performs the same purpose as ritual - it establishes boundaries between clean/abject and binds people together. "Spectacles" been intrinsic since the first episode. Ritual is implied by the shape of the Bringers' knives. Note the FE's remark to Spike in Never Leave Me: "You'll have to excuse the spectacle, but I've always been a bit of a sucker for the old classics". Showdown feeds directly into the Prologue of First Date. The scene in the graveyard is theatrical.
 
Tribel, did I mention I could use your brains?
Yes, in Showtime it's the gladiatorial aspect that Buffy chooses. I can't remember who makes the geeky reference to "two enter, one leaves". Can't watch it again.
I'd forgotten about the Judgement of Paris, that's more food for thought.
The more I watch S7, the more I enjoy it because I am beginning to see the themes that tie it together, thanks to you and everyone else posting, not just on this thread, but also on this board as a whole.
What a great show, and how I miss it.
 
I always thought this was a reference to Spike loving films and tv.
Nice one debbicles!
LOL! Evokes for me Chandler's The Big Sleep. "Sacrificing himself to serve a higher code of honor, Marlowe acts as the modern-day counterpart to the knight on the Sternwoods' stained glass window". BtVS has (IMO) alluded to Arthurian legend since the opening scene of Lessons (Westbury). The language of chivalry is alive and well in "Champion" - allusions to the Holy Grail and Sword in the Stone. It's the discourse of the troubadours adopted by Spike in S5.
"It is of Irish and Latin origin, and the meaning of Molly is "star of the sea". Pet form of Mary". Can we ignore this in a season full of Mariology? Madonna and Child, Mother of Sorrows etc.? Isn't Molly killed by Caleb (the severe father) with her own knife (I'm ignoring obvious Freudian references) just after he kills Diane (virgin goddess of childbirth and women)? Again, there've been allusions to Greek Myth (Cassie, Eros, Psyche) - just as there'll be allusions to Orpheus and Eurydice. Makes you wonder just how far back Whedon's "beginning" is. There'll be reference to Tara (Terra/Gaia) McClay and it will culminate in Willow's White Goddess (which takes us straight back to Graves (White Goddess of Birth, Love and Death), then Joseph Frazer (probably Campbell) and certainly Freud. Graves used the idea of analeptic thought (important for both Buffy and Spike and implicit in all the "call-backs"). What I think we're seeing is mytho-poetic ideas of Woman as prototypical religion, as poetic muse (true in Spike's story), matriarchal theology...blah..blah...blah.....
LOL! I haven't thought this one through so bear with me...

Did I mention I like Season 7? 🙂
 
. It's spectacle - it's death that's meant to be seen. It performs the same purpose as ritual - it establishes boundaries between clean/abject and binds people together. "Spectacles" been intrinsic since the first episode. Ritual is implied by the shape of the Bringers' knives. Note the FE's remark to Spike in Never Leave Me: "You'll have to excuse the spectacle, but I've always been a bit of a sucker for the old classics". Showdown feeds directly into the Prologue of First Date. The scene in the graveyard is theatrical.

Oh darn got things mixed up.
Yes, that makes sense about Dru, even if Spike did say that First Evil could never match her for sheer craziness.
 
TriBel
TriBel
"Two men enter. One man leaves". Andrew.
Yes, in Showtime it's the gladiatorial aspect that Buffy chooses. I can't remember who makes the geeky reference to "two enter, one leaves". Can't watch it again.

It's not my favourite. With regard to the Mad Max: Beyond the Thunderdome reference (and the season is full of film references)., there's also this from MM: BtT "Bust a deal, face the Wheel!" I've always wondered whether the circular contraption Spike is bled from alludes to Vetruvian Man (below: I've seen it said it that Warren death alludes to it).

leonardo-da-vinci-vitruvian-man_a-G-2549011-0.jpg
 
It's not my favourite. With regard to the Mad Max: Beyond the Thunderdome reference (and the season is full of film references)., there's also this from MM: BtT "Bust a deal, face the Wheel!" I've always wondered whether the circular contraption Spike is bled from alludes to Vetruvian Man (below: I've seen it said it that Warren death alludes to it).

leonardo-da-vinci-vitruvian-man_a-G-2549011-0.jpg
Thanks, I felt it might be Andrew, it seemed the kind of thing he would say.
The wheel shape actually reminds me of rather more gruesome things, sorry to say! But lovely to see Leonardo's drawing in this thread!
 
Lies My Parents Told Me

I find this episode frustrating, but then it seems like it was put together in a way that would defy clear answers. I don't agree with anyone fully in this episode, though I'm pretty much always going to take Buffy's side in a fight.

The most interesting thing to me on rewatch was the scene when Buffy checks on Dawn at the end. It immediately follows Buffy's echo of "The mission is what matters," and I think its function is to undercut that sentiment. It's actually NOT the mission that matters. Or at least, it's not the only thing that matters.

If the mission were the only thing that mattered, then doing things for the "greater good" would be justified. But Buffy knows that you can't beat evil by doing evil, and that's what she really stands for (even if she's making mistakes this season as she tries to use the "mission" mentality).

Buffy uses a consequence-based argument (that killing Spike is wrong because the outcome would be that they lose their strongest fighter) with Giles and Wood. But you'd never convince me that Buffy would be OK with Wood killing ensouled Spike even if he couldn't fight, even if he was of no use to her in the battle with the First. And she told Spike as much when he offered to leave in First Date. She's not keeping Spike around just because he's a good demon fighter, and it would not be OK to kill him if he was not a good fighter.

Buffy's comment about being willing to let Dawn die now is controversial, but I'm not sure it's actually a big change. Buffy wasn't willing to kill Dawn or allow her to be killed to stop Glory from destroying the world, but if push had come to shove, I do think she would have let Dawn jump to save the world, if there hadn't been any other choice. I think Buffy would have jumped with her in those circumstances, but I find it hard to believe that Buffy would have actually let the world end. (To me, Buffy's actions with Spike in this episode seem to reinforce that she still wouldn't be OK with killing Dawn pre-emptively, the way Giles wanted to. Giles asks about letting Dawn die, not killing her, and Buffy says, "If I had to...") Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love other thoughts on this.

The other very interesting thing about this episode is the bs that Spike spouts at the end about slayers.

"She knew what she was signing up for." - Obviously not true. Slayers don't sign up for anything. They're drafted.

"I know slayers. No matter how many people they've got around them, they fight alone. Life of the chosen one. The rest of us be damned." - This is basically true in our experience with Buffy (see her speech in Selfless), but again it's not really by choice. And "the rest of us be damned" is a perfectly wrong choice of words, given that the role of the slayer is actually to PREVENT the rest of us from being damned. She takes on an unfair burden so the rest of humanity can benefit.

These seem to be the most important "lies" of the episode. The slayer myth that has been built up over centuries by the "parents" of the Watchers Council (including Giles, who shows the WC's mindset in this episode). Buffy's real battle now is with the system, which is why a certain other slayer shows up in the very next episode, along with Caleb, who hangs a lantern on the fact that patriarchy/misogyny is the enemy.

Also, I'm pretty sure that The First appears as Buffy in each of the final five episodes because of course.
 
Storyteller

Storyteller reminds me of The Zeppo. Change in POV for a side funny male character to liven up the season, behind the comedy there are dire circumstances, a side character becomes central to averting a disaster at school (Hellmouth/blowing up the school), said side character provides caricatures of the Scoobies and stories based on their perspective, and even Spuffy gets their own spoof just like Bangel got theirs in Zeppo. This episode is different enough because in this case, Andrew has to come to terms with what he did so that he can have his own path towards redemption (what's the first step? Admitting you have a problem.)

Sometimes I like Andrew and sometimes I don't. I'm hot and cold on him. But it's hard not to sit back and enjoy him in this episode. The end is probably my favorite thing about this episode. Nothing is funny anymore, there is no story to tell. He can't hide behind anything. He has to face up to his wrongdoings, his past, as well as what is coming and what he feels he might deserve. I really like him in that final moment. I just don't remember if he stays in this headspace and I guess at the end of the day if he did our only comedic relief character would be gone and the rest of the season would be all but devoid of anything funny.

I will always be grateful that this season and episode gave us this gif forever:
tumblr_p4jf7pPp7b1rlbc16o8_400.gif

She so pretty.

(No joke my Hulu cut out just as Spike approached Buffy in the kitchen scene. lol. It's like my hulu knows me?)

I love when the show is self-aware and the spiel from Andrew about Buffy and her speeches is gold. But you do have to wonder sometimes if the writers were aware that all Buffy is doing this season is giving speeches - don't you think they would try to ... not do that? Anyway - just a thought.

Is it just me or are Buffy and Wood flirting with each other in this episode? Either way, they are having some friendly banter and it's fun to watch them.

Buffy apologizing to Andrew at the end after the hellmouth closes is important to me because she does have to emotionally manipulate Andrew into feeling like garbage for what he did. Of course, I don't blame Buffy in the slightest because it was necessary and I think it also shocked Andrew into facing some serious facts about himself. But that she looks to show some compassion to Andrew at the end is endearing. So I like these moments where I see the warm and caring Buffy, even if it is for just one second.

Shallow note: Both Anya and Buffy's eyebrows are so light. Was this a thing back in 2003? I don't remember dying my eyebrows to look like I didn't have any...
 
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