Cordelia's Transition onto Angel

telperion66

telperion66

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I liked Cordy on Buffy, but I love her on Angel.

Even in Angel season 1, she shows an immediate growth from the character we knew in Buffy season 3. She shows compassion, and a deeper element to her character that makes the audience want to care about her throughout the various episodes. Thankfully, she also retains (and one might say, even improves upon) her excellent light-hearted humour.

I don't really want to talk about what some fans call her "character assassination" in season four. To me, evil Cordy was interesting at first and just a necessary plot-twist to help the season reach its conclusion. All in all, I'm sad we lost her to the show, until her re-appearance in 'You're Welcome' - she was sorely missed. The writers could have redeveloped her character to benefit season 5 greatly in my opinion.

Season 3 is an amazing year for Cordelia. Her connection to each of the gang has matured since the early years of Angel, and she brings such a depth and richness to proceedings. I really like season 3 of Angel, in large part due to Cordy's influence.

What are your guys thoughts on the development of Cordy on Angel, when compared to her time on Buffy?

🙂
 
Cordelia's character stretching from Buffy S1 to Angel S2 is such a great arc, well-written, acted, and super believable. Everything falls apart in S3 - I don't agree that her character was assassinated in S4, it had already been so when they turned her into Buffy 2.0! in S3 so that she could fit in with Angel (who became Xander 2.0! funnily enough). It's sad to see a story that was handled so well up until then be fumbled with and eventually dropped completely, but I'm just happy that we got You're Welcome which was the first time, imo, that we got the real Cordy since S2.
 
Cordy was the heart of AtS for three seasons. She bought a warmth and humour that Angel needed as a character and the show needed her energy. Doyle and Angel were both broody Irishmen, the show with just them and Kate as broody cop would have been unbearable. Doyle only shines (imo) when he's with Cordy. Once Wesley arrived, the chemistry between the three leads was evident and they all sparked off each other.

Cordy's growth is only second to Spike. She went from bitchy cheerleader to champion, happy to sacrifice herself to fight evil. She gave up on her dreams and put her ego aside, happy to be the sidekick and help others.
 
Puppet said:
Cordelia's character stretching from Buffy S1 to Angel S2 is such a great arc, well-written, acted, and super believable. Everything falls apart in S3 - I don't agree that her character was assassinated in S4, it had already been so when they turned her into Buffy 2.0! in S3 so that she could fit in with Angel (who became Xander 2.0! funnily enough). It's sad to see a story that was handled so well up until then be fumbled with and eventually dropped completely, but I'm just happy that we got You're Welcome which was the first time, imo, that we got the real Cordy since S2.
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Yes, I agree. Turning her into the "mother" of the group was the real character assassination. Ironically, Cordy was a really strong character and they just took away everything that made her a strong character when they tried to make her a "strong" character.
 
I loved Cordy in Angel, it was lovely to see her grow and develop as a person! She really became the heart of the gang, and as the show progressed she also became somewhat of a mother figure. Evil Cordy wasn’t my favourite thing, but it was interesting and Charisma played it very well... Connor, that’s a different story, he just annoyed me! I loved the concept of the episode Your Welcome, it was super sad to see our beloved Cordelia go after we had known her for so long and how she went from queen of mean, self absorbed cheerleader to an independent woman, ready to sacrifice her life to fight the good fight. However, I love the way they did it, she got to come back for one day and helped them a great deal with the Lindsey thing, as well as make them look inside themselves before kissing Angel and disappearing. I feel the way she went was like she finally did what she had to do, and was at peace. Love this thread, thanks telperion66 😊 💕
 
Love Cordy on Angel seasons 1 and 2. I liked her a lot in Buffy season 2 and 3. Other than a few moments like in Prophecy Girl in S1 she is either unimportant and just nasty.

Credit to Charisma as I think a lot of the character growth came from her more than the writers, like making her humour more blunt than malicious (Which it was at the start with the "You're boring") her chemistry with Willow and of course Xander allowed her to come into the group more and that was entirely down to her. (For instance Xander and Cordelia only became an item because of how hilarious they were together.)

Still obviously Angel gave her more to do but I agree with the consensus that S3 kind of throws a spanner in her character.

I don't think it assassinates her character per se, I just think that she and Angel were a very bad fit.

To start with he shouldn't have a love interest or else he'll go evil. (Why does no one bring up that every singe one of the problems that made him and Buffy split up, are there with him and Cordelia?) Second, why have they suddenly fallen in love after all this time? Third they had to change Cordy's role in the show. She was better making fun of and challenging him, like in S2 when he abandoned them. Now all of a sudden she doesn't give two ****s for Wesley, even when she is looking at a picture of her, Angel and Wesley together?

Again I say it's kind of like Spike, we have a great antagonistic character who everybody likes because of their sense of humour, suddenly out of the blue realise they love the hero and become their annoying cheerleader and never get any funny lines anymore.

At least however with Spike there was good chemistry with the lead he fell in love ith and it led to something big, the fact that Cordy/Angel went nowhere and we got the creepy as **** Connor/Cordelia just made it all the worse.

I think the Connor thing came about because of Angel/Cordy as it really couldn't go anywhere like Buffy/Spike or else we'd all be like Fred, jabbing him with the stake, "not too happy I hope." So they had to find some ridiculous way of splitting them up. They wrote themselves into a hole, just because once again Joss has to give his hero a love interest.
 
S1-2 of Angel absolutely. I actually find s4 Cordy more bearable than 3 because at least I can justify her by saying ‘well it’s not really her’. S3 Cordy is totally ruined and wrote into a corner for the ghastly Cangel storyline. They made her this weirdly saint like character who was so selfless but who also bizarrely didn’t care about anyone other than Angel. Everything about the hair, the glowing white, levitating was all a bit wtf? It just wasn’t even remotely Cordy any more. There’s a line Cordy makes when she says ‘Angel is my priority, his feelings are the only ones I care about’ wtf what about everyone else? You know the friends who you completely supported each other when Angel was on his pretentious crusade last year?
I read one of the producers admitting that they all hated the ‘Cordy being a higher power’ stuff which just begs the question ‘so why did you do it then?’

s3 Cordy is a different character completely, she bears no resemblance to the real Cordelia other than she’s also played by Charisma
 
Hey guys, glad you like the thread.

Never knew there was such a feeling against Cordy in season 3. I must be the only one who thinks this is her best season!

In fighting my corner, I will say that she had matured by then, was very grounded, likeable, and had an excellent chemistry with whomever she came into contact with.

Maybe its just a personal preference, but I just dig her in season 3. Each to their own, I guess!

As for the "higher power" stuff, sure, it was a little hokey, but it only really came into effect at the very end of the season and had little impact as far as I could tell.
 
telperion66 said:
Hey guys, glad you like the thread.

Never knew there was such a feeling against Cordy in season 3. I must be the only one who thinks this is her best season!

In fighting my corner, I will say that she had matured by then, was very grounded, likeable, and had an excellent chemistry with whomever she came into contact with.

Maybe its just a personal preference, but I just dig her in season 3. Each to their own, I guess!

As for the "higher power" stuff, sure, it was a little hokey, but it only really came into effect at the very end of the season and had little impact as far as I could tell.
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I think it’s more about what the ‘higher power’ stuff represented. She was built up as this wierd saint like figure for less than a season and then is basically sainted. It’s all a bit ‘really?’ I felt like the show got meta on itself and acknowledged it had been a rubbish storyline when they had Skip basically say ‘Cordelia Chase a higher power? Purlease!’
 
I like to think Cordy has matured by Season 3. I don't see anything out of character about her. I think her behaviour is appropriate for a woman who's been fighting evil for five years. I also think she's great in season 3.
 
I do too. I don't really care that much about her on BTVS. I prefer her with the Fang gang rather than the Scoobies. I love that she's being more compassionate on ATS & evolved.
 
She shows a lot of growth on Angel because there's room for her to grow.

On Buffy she's the sixth most important character. Buffy, Giles, Willow, Xander, and Angel all take precedence over Cordelia in terms of focus, development, and story significance. Plus they had to mix in the villains and side characters like Anya (she would eventually grow into more than a side character in part to replace Cordelia), Oz, Jenny, Joyce, Jonathan, Faith, Harmony, etc. Consequently Cordelia is always playing off one of the more important characters (as a foil, as a love interest, as a damsel to be rescued, etc) and we don't get to spend a lot of time focusing on her personal journey.

On Angel she's the female lead and the #2 character for the first four seasons. She's counted on to carry the parts of the show that Angel himself cannot, so consequently we spend a lot more time diving into Cordelia's emotional state, her motivations, her ambitions, her personal growth.
 
I love Cordy on Buffy I think she has to be the most likeable bully I've ever seen on TV and in some ways she had a lot of depth. I love Cordy's friendship with Angel and Wes over on Ats but I think the way it ended with Cordelia was terrible nobody even got to mourn Cordy after all those years. I don't really think You're Welcome is great either apart from the last scene between Cordy and Angel.
 
I'm only up to Angel season 1 so far, but I feel like her growth wouldn't have felt as satisfying were not for her part in Buffy S1-3. We gradually came to learn in BtVS that Cordy is more than just a stereotypical Queen Bee character, that there's something deeper beneath the surface. More importantly, it's because of her transgressions in BtVS that led her to seeking redemption in AtS, and therefore, her role in BtVS shouldn't be trivialized either as it was indeed an important part of her character development.

Now, Wesley, on the other hand... I felt he had too much presence in Buffy S3. His transition from BtVS to AtS hardly felt any different 'till "Five by Five".
 
Oromous said:
Now, Wesley, on the other hand... I felt he had too much presence in Buffy S3. His transition from BtVS to AtS hardly felt any different 'till "Five by Five".
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I've refrained from speaking on this before as I don't want to give spoilers. I still don't. So just let me give minimalist spoiler. Wesley doesn't "blossom" under Angel. A lot happens. Those actions (some his own fault and some not) begin to change him. Eventually, he'll be on his own for awhile. That's when the major changes happen.

I hope that's not too much. You already know it's coming, it just seems that you think it's going to be any episode now when it's not. It's a slow process that's going to take seasons, though it gets sped up a lot in season 3. So just be patient with that.

That said, I've seen the case made that Wesley doesn't change so much as become jaded and bitter which gives him a more confident (or reckless, pick one) trait that only makes it APPEAR that he has changed more than he has. I'm still not sure what to think on this as I do see real changes, and yet I see where those who say this are coming from as he kind of operates the same (though the irony of him and Faith in season 4...nope, not gonna go there). When season 3 starts and he's on his own for awhile, pay close attention to the changes (and compare/contrast as it goes through season 5) as I'm especially interested in what you'd say of the character progression of Wesley from Buffy s3 to Angel s5. 🙂
 
thrasherpix said:
I've refrained from speaking on this before as I don't want to give spoilers. I still don't. So just let me give minimalist spoiler. Wesley doesn't "blossom" under Angel. A lot happens. Those actions (some his own fault and some not) begin to change him. Eventually, he'll be on his own for awhile. That's when the major changes happen.

I hope that's not too much. You already know it's coming, it just seems that you think it's going to be any episode now when it's not. It's a slow process that's going to take seasons, though it gets sped up a lot in season 3. So just be patient with that.
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That makes sense, character development gradually unfolding over time. That's how it happened with Cordelia too, not over a single episode. I guess I was just getting a little tired with Wesley constantly fumbling about for the audience's amusement, but I'll be patient. 🙂

thrasherpix said:
That said, I've seen the case made that Wesley doesn't change so much as become jaded and bitter which gives him a more confident (or reckless, pick one) trait that only makes it APPEAR that he has changed more than he has. I'm still not sure what to think on this as I do see real changes, and yet I see where those who say this are coming from as he kind of operates the same (though the irony of him and Faith in season 4...nope, not gonna go there). When season 3 starts and he's on his own for awhile, pay close attention to the changes (and compare/contrast as it goes through season 5) as I'm especially interested in what you'd say of the character progression of Wesley from Buffy s3 to Angel s5. 🙂
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Looking forward to it. It can be a cliched archetype, but I just can't help but like jaded characters who were once idealists, probably because I'm such a person myself, having a more jaded view of the world once I was past childhood. I think when you hang around in a universe as nihilistic and morbid as the Angelverse, it's inevitable that you would become jaded. But more on such existentialist issues when I reach season 3.
 
thrasherpix said:
That said, I've seen the case made that Wesley doesn't change so much as become jaded and bitter which gives him a more confident (or reckless, pick one) trait that only makes it APPEAR that he has changed more than he has.
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I'm one of those people - he doesn't go through a character arc, he stops shaving 😛 It's a subtle difference, but it's real. He's still the exact same (horrible) man beneath the stubble.
 
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