Fred/Gunn vs. Fred/Wesley

[Miss Muffet]

Before I start, I want to make this clear I don't intend to make this thread a shipping war, so please don't.

When it comes down to the Wesley/Fred/Gunn love triangle, I don't have a personal opinion on which pairing I like better, which led me to wonder what people like about the pairings.
So here's my question:
Which pairing do you like more? Why? Is there anything in particular you don't like about the other?

Please be civil, and thank you!

 

[Puppet]

Fred/Gunn all day long! They had believable build-up, spending time outside of work, having breakfast together, before they made the move to an actual couple. While they were a bit cheesy in the beginning (which, let's face it, is also very believable) they eventually grew into a comfortable, trusting, fun couple that felt so right. In a lot of ways, even their break-up fit into that, taking a while to fully take effect, and the friendship that remained between them as exes made the whole thing even sweeter.

On the other hand, Fred/Wes was almost entirely about Wesley; his crush (pining) on Fred, his feelings about her choosing Gunn over him (even though she didn't even know she was choosing between two), his continued pining throughout the next two seasons. Then, in S5, we finally get a bit of Fred pining after him, but it just feels too late and not very believable. It feels more like putting them together 'because why not'. Not to mention that, when they finally get together...BAM! She's dead and we get Wes' manpain for the rest of the show. I liked them being friends, truthfully, more than anything else they ever tried to be.

 

[gwenogjones]

Agreed with what @Puppet says.

Even the idea of her 'choosing' is so Wesley centric. It doesn't matter if a hundred men are interested in dating her - if she's into Gunn, she isn't looking at the other 99. She isn't umming and ahhing and coming to a decision, she's acting on her own, very real feelings. It's only Wesley who ever sees it in terms of a choice - he really doesn't get that he was never in the running, there wasn't even a race. She just liked Gunn and that was the end of it.

I always think Wesley never really sees Fred for who she is, he sees her for who he wants her to be. He doesn't make his dream woman fit into a Fred shape, he fits Fred into the shape of his dream woman - whether it is true or not. And never really stops to consider that the feelings might not be reciprocated.

He's always very protective of Fred - worrying she might get emotionally hurt with Gunn, trying to keep her out of danger, blaming himself when she gets in danger and that's because he wants a damsel to rescue, therefore dream woman is a damsel, therefore Fred is one. What she actually is is a woman who kept herself safe and hidden in a hell dimension for five years and came home and rebuilt her life. As Gunn says about her in Heart Throb: 'girl's strong.' But that's never how Wesley treats her.

I think Gunn can see her more clearly and falls for the reality of her, rather than what he wants her to be.

 

[r2dh2]

I don’t have strong feelings one way or another, but I never really fell for Gunn/Fred. I agree that it was indeed an organic relationship, but I always felt that it wasn’t a good match. I did prefer the Wes/Fred pairing, although I also agree that the way it was portrayed was all about Wes. However, I also think that this was the intention. Wes falling for her and becoming obsess with her is what contributes to his descent into his “darkness.” Tbh, I never really warmed up to Fred. She was cute and nice, but I found Wes’ story much more compelling and layered. Despite all his many mistakes, I like him. But, yeah, he’s a very flawed man. And regarding Gunn, I’m with those that think that him and Anne would have been the perfect couple. Both had similar interests and similar background.

 

[Priceless]

I much prefer Fred/Gunn, mainly because of Wesley's entitled behaviour towards them both just irritated me so much.
I am not a big Fred fan as she had too much of the cool-girl about her. Once they'd both had their memories wiped in S5 I liked them much better and Gunn a little less.

 

[spikenbuffy]

Fred/Wesley

 

[sunny]

Fred/Wesley all the way !
They have so much more in common. Their doomed fate put a stop to the very beginning of their relationship. It was so frustrating, dark and gloomy... I love it. I really wonder what could have happened if both of them stayed alive... But I prefer it this way tho, because their unfinished love affair compels us to imagine what could have been. What if they had started dating earlier ? Prior to Wesley's betrayal or after it ? So many other paths could have been taken, and at that point, I seriously consider reading fanfics about them to find out.

Regarding Fred/Gunn, I never really get the whole thing between them... Their relationship kinda came out of nowhere imo, and got real awkward and fuzzy after the murder of Seidel. I may lack of objectivity regarding them since I can't feel any chemistry between these two characters, leading me to pay very little attention to the moments they shared together as a couple..

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I never saw any long-term prospect for Fred/Gunn. A physicist and a street gang leader really don't have much to talk about with each other. Fred and Wesley were not in the same field but they were researchers. With the death of Professor Seidel, I got Riley and Buffy vibes with Gunn thinking he knew better than Fred about what she was doing. She was sending the professor off to Pylea or some place like it whereas Gunn turned it into a murder.

Fred and Wesley had a bit more in common although Wesley had daddy issues that ruined his confidence and therefore he was a bit slow on the uptake with Fred.

Neither pairing could be considered soulmates. They were always more likely to be waypoints on the way to something else.

 

[Stake fodder]

I liked Fresley in S5, but since this is an S3 thread, I voted for Funn. I agree with what's said above, that Wesley seemed more entitled and possessive, while Gunn just seemed to enjoy Fred for who she was. While they all may have been about the same age, Fred and Gunn just seemed more like the 'kids' of the group, and both had an attitude of "I'm going to find some joy in life no matter what it throws at me." They were just a fun, cute couple.

 

[TriBel]

I actually think Frillyria and Angel is a OTP. The little human who adores him and who he can protect if need be; the God-Emperor who can lay down the law. It's what he's been looking for since he was turned. So I'm not attached to any of S3 pairings. Gunn should be with Annie and Wes...IDK...Lilah? Doesn't matter...he dies.

 

[thetopher]

I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other because I like aspects of both; the reason I like Fred/Gunn is the 'dating' part, but to me the buildup was just a mishandled misdirect that didn't really convince.
To me it seemed to happen because it was unexpected and for little other reason...but the 'together' part was nicely portrayed and was great for both characters. We saw a different, softer, side to Charles and the romance really brought Fred out fully into the world. What's not to like? For the latter part of S3 and the first third of S4 they are a nice, stable island of uncomplicated romance. So obviously it couldn't last.

With Fred/Wesley I like it in S5, not S4. Season 4 I'm all about Wesley/Lilah, but in S5 I like the oh-so-professional colleagues-thing they are trying to do, and hate Knox with a passion not only for what he did to Fred but that we're supposed to believe that he was somehow Fred's 'type'. Urgh, get out of the way you stupid-faced stupid evil lame cultist.


Ahem, anyway...one point; I don't subscribe to the quite baffling assertion that Wesley is 'massively entitled' towards Fred in S3; he merely becomes distant, which is much more a defence mechanism for himself and his feelings of rejection than anything to do with Fred.
Nor do I think that he 'projected' an 'ideal' onto Fred because, well, I don't see any evidence; He admired her bravery and her brains and her quirks from the start (or pretty near), the reason he was circumspect about his feelings for her was mainly because of events of 'Billy', which is like ';The Pack' except a million times worse in terms of violation and threat level.
Nor do I think Wesley had an 'ideal' to project Fred into; Cordelia, Virginia, Lilah and Fred are all different and all meant different things to Wes.

Also he gets unfairly blamed for breaking up Gunn and Fred which it nonsense; Gunn and Fred broke up mostly because of things they themselves did and choices they made. I find that many like to scapegoat Wesley rather than allow say, Fred, to take ownership of her character flaws

 

[Ihamze94]

It had made sense that Fred has feelings for Gunn first. People have said that Gunn and fred were forced but it had made sense that he'd be her type. She fell for Angel because he's tough and heroic as well as handsome. Her type are warriors and knight in shining armor type of guys. Just because she's brainy doesn't automatically mean that she likes nerdy guys. Gunn is someone who's a brave fighter, is a weapons expert and is likely seen on the front lines while Wesley, at least before season 4, used his brain to solve problems first and only fights when he had to. But more than that, Gunn had made it clear that he liked her while Wesley didn't. Wesley was being cowardly, saying he was waiting for the right moment. While he was doing that, Gunn and fred were spending time together and he had made the effort to get to know her more, found out her interests. I've never been a fan of couples who were too similar. I was drawn to Gunn and Fred's "opposite attract" romance because they're fun to watch

 

[MargoTheFreak]

I rewatched AtS for the first time in a while this year and I actually forgot Fred and Gunn were a couple.

I watch Buffy usually more than once a year, but I had only seen Angel a couple times because when I watched it as a kid it kinda bugged me... I love all the characters, I just hate... everything that happens (that's an exaggeration, but season 4 really did get to me).

Going into it for the first time in years, I remembered that I hardcore shipped Fred and Wesley, which I think resulted in me blocking Fred and Gunn from my mind. Watching it now, I warmed up to Fred and Gunn a lot more, but still have a slight preference for Fresley. I don't have too much justification, but I think it's hilarious that I blacked out an entire couple but still remembered most of what was going on around them.

 

[CHK DeWilSon]

I'm a Fresley fan through and through but didn't have any hard issues with Frunn.

My problem when I first watch it happening in WITW episode was that it (Fred and Gunn) came out of left field simply because it felt they had build up possibility and potential of Fred and Wesley to a degree that it was likely inevitable that they would happen. And I still felt that all the way through Fred and Ginn's relationship. Of course that's not to say others didn't see it happening between Fred and Gunn before the episode of them getting together but I really didn't.

JW has this thing about going off course from what viewers expected which is good but it felt a bit inorganic for me with how I viewed their friendship at the time with that episode however the relationship itself that was played out felt authentic because of how the actors portrayed it.

I'm not really surprised that Fred and Gunn being together proved to be welcome by many due to it being unexpected for some which people like as going the the predictable way can aometimes be deemed dull and uninspiring.

Fred and Gunn worked well enough as a couple but it felt like their relationship was just a hurdle to potentially the real love story for Fred especially given what JW did to Fred and Wesley in the fifth and last series and what he may have done to them in a sixth series if they had been renewed.

For me it was never about Fred and Wesley being similar and possibly having a bit more in common than Fred and Gunn, I just felt their connection and chemistry was better and stronger.

 

[Antho]

Fred and Wesley’s relationship wasn’t developed enough. They are together and she dies ! Of course the melodrama around touches me a lot because I’m a sensible person but I think I’m more attached to the drama that happened to them than to them as a couple ! Do you see what I mean ?

 

[KaitKat]

Fred and Wesley’s relationship wasn’t developed enough. They are together and she dies ! Of course the melodrama around touches me a lot because I’m a sensible person but I think I’m more attached to the drama that happened to them than to them as a couple ! Do you see what I mean ?

That’s the perfect way to describe it. The season 5 storyline gets me in the feels but at the same time I’m sitting there thinking that they wouldn’t even be together if it weren’t for the mind wipe.

 

[burrunjor]

I didn't care for either to be honest. Biggest problem with Joss Whedon as a writer. He feels the need to ship everyone off into couples. I'm not saying don't ever have any romance in it obviously, but surely there is a fine line between that and, suddenly have characters fall in love for no reason (Fred with Wesley, Spike with Buffy) changing characters entire personalities (Spike becoming a nice man, Cordelia becoming saint Cordy for Angel) and introducing loathed characters just to have someone for them to be with (Kennedy.)

Neither of Fred's two relationships were as bad as those obviously, but they did kind of just feel like unnecessary conflict in the group for the sake of it.

Of the two though I'm going to say Fred/Wesley. Gunn and Fred was a waste of time, went nowhere, was cheesy, whilst at least Fred/Wes led to the cool Ilyria story arc, though the two seasons of pining before hand from Wes was annoying and crap.

 

[thrasherpix]

I ship Gunn with Anne. Don't really care about the love lives of either Fred or Wes (though I did enjoy the messed up arc of Lilah with Wesley).

 

[Paulrina]

Fred and Gunn for sure.

I have some issues with Wesley's character.And There is no way I can ship him with my favorite character,my queen

 

[Dogs of Winter]

I preferred Fred + Gunn but am surprised it is leading the poll. There always seems to be more comments for Wes and Fed on the boards.

F + G might not have had much in common and it may not have lasted long term, but when they were together they made each other happy. They had fun, chemistry and they were good for each other at that time. Gunn helped Fred to live in the real world again after what happened in Pylea, and Fred helped Gunn to show emotions and his vulnerable side after the struggles in his own life

F + W seemed a bit too obvious, and when it eventually happened felt a bit forced.

Plus as much as I love Wes his behaviour towards Fred felt a bit entitled and stalker creepy at times. Even if a relationship with Fred would soften Wes, deep down he would still have a coldness, and I think he could end up getting overly possessive or even hurting Fred in the long term (not physically but emotionally)

Having said that I think the whole Illyria arc worked better with Wes than it would have with Gunn, so I can see the merits of both