If you could remove one character from the verse?

Warren.
I get that he brought out necessary growth/ characterisation to Willow's arc and to S6, and brought out how "dark" real life could get, but I just found him so despicable. On the other hand, Jonathan and Andrew weren't really evil enough - or competent enough - to function as true Big Bads, so I guess he was necessary. But I just wonder how S6 would be - or Willow's arc would be - if Tara hadn't been shot.

Otherwise, I'd go with Amy (or Riley.) I never found Amy that compelling a character, but I might change my mind.
 
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thetopher
thetopher
Ethan Rayne instead of Warren?
NeonSlayer said:
explored what it means to be all powerful when you never learned to have inner power.
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This is the answer I was looking for in another thread I posted. Ta 😀

As for, who I would remove - Connor. Another one who doesn't hate him, but I wouldn't miss him too much. I didn't like that they made Angel a daddy. Killed the sex appeal. Plus it was all pretty devastating for Wes.
 
WillowFromBuffy said:
I've always had this perhaps irrational annoyance with Fred for making Cordelia less important. Before Fred, Cordelia was the only woman and the only "civilian" - meaning that her backstory wasn't immortal vampire, rouge Illuminati agent or orphaned street warrior. Once Fred comes, they give Cordelia super-powers, make her a love interest and then turn her evil. It is as though they were afraid of her becoming redundant, even though she was so essential to the first two seasons.

Fred is enjoyable enough, but she does not add much to the show that I couldn't do without.
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I don't think that's fair to blame Fred for Cordelia's bad storylines. Having Faith (another Slayer) join BtVS didn't make Buffy less important. Having Tara (another witch) join BtVS didn't make Willow less important. Having Wesley (another Watcher) join BtVS didn't make Giles less important. If anything, it highlighted their uniqueness.

AtS already changed Cordelia from the only normal character when they gave her Doyle's visions, made her "Vision Girl." Suddenly we're supposed to believe she's some chosen Seer conduit with a direct line to the universe's version of God. They made it her largest function in the group.

It was in late s2 when the AtS writers regrettably decided they were going try out Cangel. That was months before Fred was truly a member of AI.
 
I could have a few contenders here.

Riley was the first character to spring to mind and would likely be my final answer. I would have liked to see Buffy rock a single life with zero boy drama during season 4 and 5.

Dawn was poorly written and Connor poorly executed so I would have done without as a preference to the way it was done.

Kate Lockley seemed very lost within the series and wouldn't have missed her either.
 
caitaintdead said:
Riley was the first character to spring to mind and would likely be my final answer. I would have liked to see Buffy rock a single life with zero boy drama during season 4 and 5.
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Buffy could have a single life without getting rid of Riley. Oh my word. I thought that Blucas and Hannigan had better chemistry anyway (in the few scenes they had together) let Riley hook up with Willow and keep Buffy single. Could have really changed the entire premise of the Initiative as well.

And the entire Buffy series was about Spike's Hero's Journey... you cant get rid of him.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
I probably agree that he had better chemistry with Hannigan yeah. But then I'm glad they went down the Willow-Tara route.
Connor, I don't hate him but removing him will dramatically change season 3/4 hopefully for the better!
 
Spanky said:
Buffy could have a single life without getting rid of Riley. Oh my word. I thought that Blucas and Hannigan had better chemistry anyway (in the few scenes they had together) let Riley hook up with Willow and keep Buffy single. Could have really changed the entire premise of the Initiative as well.
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I definitely agree that Blucas and Hannigan had better chemistry and potentially a more interesting relationship, but does that mean no Tara at all? I'm interested as how that would play out.
 
I would remove Cordelia. I disliked her on both shows. It's not one ship or scene or storyline or trait, it's every single thing about her. I couldn't be happy she was killed off because it didn't make up for being forced to sit through 7 seasons of her. She should've either never existed or been killed off in BtVS s1.

I couldn't even keep her for eye candy since the character annoys me so much my first thought seeing a pic or gif of her is "ugh" followed by quickly scrolling by. She's the only character I have filtered out on Tumblr and seeing the blank post with her name still annoys me.

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I really don't like the idea of Willow and Riley. I think it would make Willow lazy. Riley is a typical provider and Willow has a tendency to grow dependent on people. Tara needed Willow as much as Willow needed Tara.
NeonSlayer said:
I don't think that's fair to blame Fred for Cordelia's bad storylines. Having Faith (another Slayer) join BtVS didn't make Buffy less important. Having Tara (another witch) join BtVS didn't make Willow less important. Having Wesley (another Watcher) join BtVS didn't make Giles less important. If anything, it highlighted their uniqueness.

AtS already changed Cordelia from the only normal character when they gave her Doyle's visions, made her "Vision Girl." Suddenly we're supposed to believe she's some chosen Seer conduit with a direct line to the universe's version of God. They made it her largest function in the group.

It was in late s2 when the AtS writers regrettably decided they were going try out Cangel. That was months before Fred was truly a member of AI.
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Even with her visions, Cordelia is still the average Jane of the rooster. The visions make her important to the group, but it is her function as the Dr Watson that makes her important to the show. Almost every character on BtVS is a normal person with a normal life and normal concerns, even if they have some magical quality, too. On AtS, Cordelia and Fred the closest.

I've always wondered at why they added Fred. Most characters who got added to the main cast had been popular recurring characters for a long time. Many popular and integral recurring characters never became regulars at all. The only characters who got added as abruptly as Fred are Dawn and Riley. The difference between Dawn and Riley and Fred is that Fred was not brought in to serve any particular purpose. S3 gives me the sense that the writers are experimenting with many of the characters to see what works.

Maybe I am paranoid in thinking they brought Fred on just to replace Cordelia, but if not, then why did they bring her on? Why did she join the regular cast immediately. How was she pitched? "We need a new female cast member who is a brilliant physicist but also knows esoteric languages. She has a Texan accent and PTSD from having lived 5 years in hell. She is tiny, but she eats like Gunn if he was pregnant, and her name causes people to humorously mis-gender her." "What will her story be?" "..."

It's not that I don't like Fred, but if it is Fred or Cordelia, I would have preferred to keep Cordelia. And let Gunn be possessed by Jasmine and have weird sex with Connor.
 
caitaintdead said:
but does that mean no Tara at all? I'm interested as how that would play out.
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I never said no Tara. Willow and Riley could be in "love" then Riley realizes Buffy is the slayer and she starts to help out the Initiative, only to discover they don't just have demons but the big reveal is they have humans too. Enter Tara, kept trapped in a cell with them trying to understand how she can do magic.

Buffy and the gang still raid the Initiative and free the demons etc, Willow personally freeing Tara. The knowledge that Riley knew or at least suspected they were testing humans drives a wedge between him and Willow. While slowly Willow and Tara start to fall in love as Willow teaches Tara how to acclimate to a normal life- not one of captivity.

There. Done. Buffy single for the season and you have a better idea why Tara followed Willow around like a lost puppy.
 
WillowFromBuffy said:
I've always wondered at why they added Fred. Most characters who got added to the main cast had been popular recurring characters for a long time. Many popular and integral recurring characters never became regulars at all.
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AtS tended to add characters in a different way to Buffy; Gunn became a cast member after 3 episodes in S1, just like Fred was introduced in S3. Connor the same way in late S3.
The pattern seems to be 'bring the new character late in the season and then add them to the credits next season.
 
QueenVictoria said:
Joyce, without a doubt for me. That dreadful woman is my most hated character from any show.
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Isn't that a little harsh on Joyce? Sure, she's not going to be crowned mother of the year but she's not exactly a character that's in your face about things.
 
DeadlyDuo said:
Isn't that a little harsh on Joyce? Sure, she's not going to be crowned mother of the year but she's not exactly a character that's in your face about things.
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It probably is, but it's just my opinion. You know how some characters get you like that? They just irritate you.
 
There’s the option of having Joyce as an ’unseen’ character as originally planned.

Personally I like Joyce, but I do wonder how it would’ve have been if we’d never seen her...
 
nightshade
nightshade
But that would mean no Band Candy
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