The most heartbreaking character death?

[Klaus Kartoffel]

I was so mad at seeing Tara shot . I didn't care what happened to Waren .
Anya was so bad . That leaves Xander so alone .

I didn't care for Warren either. But I did care about what killing him did to Willow. Buffy was right in that regard. It changes someone. But I disagreed with Buffy that Warren should have been dealt with by human authorities. Warren didn't play by human rules. He used supernatural instruments to accomplish his twisted goals. Human laws don't apply here. Technically, Buffy was justified to kill him after this magic balls incident. So was Willow, but she did it for the wrong reasons. To kill in rage and vengeance is never good.

 

[ChaseRules]

[Quote : Blair: Me too, although I'd probably draw it out for longer... Quote]
How ? Willow only killed him when Buffy showed up .

I didn't care for Warren either. But I did care about what killing him did to Willow. Buffy was right in that regard. It changes someone. But I disagreed with Buffy that. Warren didn't play by human rules. He used supernatural instruments to accomplish his twisted goals. Human laws don't apply here. Technically, Buffy was justified to kill him after this magic balls incident. So was Willow, but she did it for the wrong reasons. To kill in rage and vengeance is never good.

I think that Buffy was right & wrong . Right in saying it changes someone & wrong in saying Warren should have been dealt with by human authorities.
He would have been out in a few days & gone after them again. He was justly punished even thought his death hurt Willow.

 

[Monkey Pants]

I agree with Buffy, because Slayers were only created to deal with mystical creatures--demons and vampires, beings created for evil with no souls. Even though Warren used mystical weapons, he is still human. Killing a human, even if they are evil, is wrong, and at some point you become just as bad as those you are persecuting. Buffy isn't God, she can't choose who to punish. She has to simply keep the balance between the human world and the demon world.

 

[Blair]

[Quote : Blair: Me too, although I'd probably draw it out for longer... Quote]
How ? Willow only killed him when Buffy showed up

Probably would of made a barrier or shield so that Buffy and crew couldn't anywhere near me, or transport them away.

I do agree with Warren shouldn't have been dealt with by human authorities. (Well, over in Australia he would of been out within a year or so. We have no justice system) He spent so long trying to kill Buffy or piss her off, even though killing Tara was a mistake, that's what you get for angering one of the most powerful witches who was trying to deal with her addiction. I get it- an eye for an eye. I don't blame Willow at all.

 

[ChaseRules]

I say transport them back to Buffy house so they wouldn't see what doing to Warren.

I don't blame Willow at all for that . I like Tara so much & he was so evil it was a mercy killing .
Plus with his magic skills he could have gotten out easy . Remember that he would have been arrested in
Sunnydale so that would have been easy for him .

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

I agree with Buffy, because Slayers were only created to deal with mystical creatures--demons and vampires, beings created for evil with no souls. Even though Warren used mystical weapons, he is still human. Killing a human, even if they are evil, is wrong, and at some point you become just as bad as those you are persecuting. Buffy isn't God, she can't choose who to punish. She has to simply keep the balance between the human world and the demon world.

I didn't talk about evil humans like rapists, murderer etc.. I talked about humans who don't play by "human" rules. The laws and authorities aren't adjusted to charge and punish humans who use magic, summon demons, steal supernatural artifacts for murderous intends etc. They would need to adapt the evidence and testimonies to "human" standards which would automatically make every trial a farce. You're basically right that Buffy shouldn't be the one who deals with them, though. Better would be the Council. But they weren't there or didn't care, I don't know.

 

[Monkey Pants]

You're basically right that Buffy shouldn't be the one who deals with them, though. Better would be the Council. But they weren't there or didn't care, I don't know.

Yeah the Watcher's Council is basically useless. You are not on top of your game boys. There should be some system set up for humans who mess in the mystical world.

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

There should be some system set up for humans who mess in the mystical world.

Exactly. But since nobody felt responsible or was competent, the task falls to Buffy, sadly. At least when it threatens humans lives or the world. Warren threatened Buffy's and others', by using both human and supernatural tools. Plus, in extend, he would have endangered the world by killing Buffy.😀

And it's not that Buffy didn't kill humans. Dark!Willow in the Fray comics comes to mind, though I don't remember the exact circumstances. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[vellavu]

And it's not that Buffy didn't kill humans.

Buffy killed who-knows-how-many human knights in the bus chase (S5E20).

 

[ChaseRules]

And they couldn't kill Glory/Ben since he was human even thought Glory would destroy the world.

Good thing Giles was there .

 

[Priceless]

Buffy killed who-knows-how-many human knights in the bus chase (S5E20).

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of this, but I think the difference is that Warren was trying to escape, while the knights were actively fighting. Killing Warren was like shooting someone in the back (yes I get the irony)

 

[Monkey Pants]

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of this, but I think the difference is that Warren was trying to escape, while the knights were actively fighting. Killing Warren was like shooting someone in the back (yes I get the irony)

Yeah, I would say with the knights it was self defense. And Warren was someone who, without his magical objects, could easily be contained.

 

[ChaseRules]

That a matter of option . He was a true psycho who would have found a way out IMO.

 

[Andy Poppens]

For me, the worst and most heart-wrenching death on the show was Joyce's. The entire episode "The Body" breaks my heart every time. Everyone was so lost and I felt lost, too. It was a wonderful exploration on the different ways that people deal with death, though, and a great episode, even if it's really hard to watch at times. I would have chosen Buffy as the most heartbreaking death, but since she came back, it's not as shocking and permanent as Joyce's. Honestly, though, even knowing Buffy comes back, I still cry every time.
So which character's death do you guys consider to be the most heartbreaking?

Whenever I watch the body it's like rewatching Game 6 and 7 of the 2011 World Series and Super Bowl 49 watching Buffy find her mom dead is like watching Nelson Cruz missing the catch and Malcolm Butler intercepting the ball
 
Buffy finding her mom dead is one of the worst images in my life the others are Nelson Cruz missing the catch the Cardinals winning the 2011 World Series and Malcolm Butler intercepting the ball
 
when Buffy found her mom dead I said to Buffy I can't help you anymore I can't help you anymore Buffy then I left Sunnydale

I was upset because Joyce was the kind of mommy who would comfort Buffy and make her feel better when she was a little girl after she had a bad dream or when she was scared during a thunderstorm when Buffy was sad Joyce was there to dry her tears when Buffy skinned or scraped her knee Joyce was there to kiss it and make it feel better then she would give her a gentle kiss and a hug

Joyce's death was one of the two worst things to happen to me in 2001 the other was Osama Bin Laden destroying my dream of eating at Windows on the World

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of this, but I think the difference is that Warren was trying to escape, while the knights were actively fighting. Killing Warren was like shooting someone in the back (yes I get the irony)

It's quite a dilemma. What would have been the right thing to do? It's out of the scope for the constitutional state. The Watcher's Council was useless. Let Warren escape? He would have come back and despite his nerdiness and awkwardness; he represented a serious threat. But Willow didn't kill him to protect the innocent. She killed him out of vengeance. There lies the wrongness even though I can feel for Willow as well as I understand that she never felt any real remorse. It's about Willow. Screw Warren. 😀

 

[vellavu]

But Willow didn't kill him to protect the innocent. She killed him out of vengeance.

Vengeance is arguably a better reason of vigilante than protecting the innocent.

"Protecting the innocent" is so vague. Could I kill baby Hitler to protect the innocent? Could I kill 5 innocent adults to protect 100 innocent children? It opens a can of worms to rationalize wrong-doings.

Vengeance, in contrast, is way more clearly defined and not so easy to abuse. I approve vengeance more.

 

[ChaseRules]

Don't forgot he killed two people & almost killed a third .

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

Vengeance, in contrast, is way more clearly defined and not so easy to abuse. I approve vengeance more.

But vindictiveness and hatred are very strong feelings which tent to cloud rational reasoning as well as they're not satisfiable. Otherwise, Willow would have stopped after she killed him. Those feelings combined with vigilantes reminds me very much of lynchings.

"Protecting the innocent" is a phrase often used in the Buffyverse. Basically it means to protect humanity from demons, monsters and, in extend, all supernatural threats.🙂

I would have been very okay if Buffy just had killed him in "Entropy", cool, efficient, emotionless.
I see why she didn't though. 😀

 

[ChaseRules]

I would have not faulted Willow if she had stoped after killing Waren since he was just as evil as if he was a demon .
It everything I find fault with even thought I forgive her .

 

[vellavu]

But vindictiveness and hatred are very strong feelings which tent to cloud rational reasoning as well as they're not satisfiable. Otherwise, Willow would have stopped after she killed him. Those feelings combined with vigilantes reminds me very much of lynchings.

I don't think Willow lost her mind, not before Dawn and Buffy constantly tried to stop her. And I do think that she would stop after the Trio's all dead.

After she turned dark, the first thing she chose to do was to go to the hospital saving Buffy. Dark Willow, like normal Willow, is a good person at heart.