Why didn't the monks just destroy the key?

[Athena]

But that's the point. The events of season 5 could've been avoided if the Monks didn't make Dawn human, just like the events of Raiders of the Lost Ark could've been avoided if Indiana Jones hadn't interfered.

Glory could've been on Angel instead and would've added a splash of colour to what is a very dark show palette wise.

So, if the monks did, for example, make Dawn into a grain of sand thus avoiding the whole Glory plot, what would S5 have actually been about? Or maybe that's a theory for another thread? 😛

 

[DeadlyDuo]

So, if the monks did, for example, make Dawn into a grain of sand thus avoiding the whole Glory plot, what would S5 have actually been about? Or maybe that's a theory for another thread? 😛

I don't know but they could've revolved it around the biggest challenge Buffy would've ever had to face: Her mother's cancer diagnosis and overcoming the grief that results from that.

 

[Last Watcher]

The monks didn' t have the time to think about grains of sand 🙂 Glory was banging on the door, they had to think fast.

The Monks didn't have time to turn her into a grain of sand, but they did have time to turn her into a living breathing Human, transport her to Buffy's house, & rewrite the memories of loads of other people (including a powerful Witch who may have actually noticed if they didn't do it carefully) to not notice her sudden appearance......? 😉

It is a point though that if Dawn had never been created then Season 5 would probably have fizzled out or even gone the way of S7 😕

 

[GraceK]

I felt it was actually pretty cruel of the monks to make her human. In order to protect her, they make her a mortal girl, give her fake memories, and basically leave her vulnerable? I mean, the only way to activate the key , in her HUMAN form, is to slowly bleed her to death. They pretty much condemned her to be tortured to death on the off chance Buffy didn't save her in time. Not to mention the mental anguish of being responsible for the world ending, her sister dying, and not actually
Being "real". If they had just made her an inanimate object at least she wouldn't suffer.

On a slightly different topic, what exactly WOULD happen to Dawn if she died? Would she just revert to a ball of energy or would she actually move on like Buffy did?

 

[Athena]

On a slightly different topic, what exactly WOULD happen to Dawn if she died? Would she just revert to a ball of energy or would she actually move on like Buffy did?

The monks said they made Dawn completely human, so presumably she would die like a human and die similarly to Buffy.....

 

[Priceless]

I felt it was actually pretty cruel of the monks to make her human. In order to protect her, they make her a mortal girl, give her fake memories, and basically leave her vulnerable? I mean, the only way to activate the key , in her HUMAN form, is to slowly bleed her to death. They pretty much condemned her to be tortured to death on the off chance Buffy didn't save her in time. Not to mention the mental anguish of being responsible for the world ending, her sister dying, and not actually

I think that's because the Monks were both religious and men. They are similar to the Shadow Men, they think of young girls as easily hidden and easily controlled, they wouldn't become involved in anything that would draw attention to herself, therefore easier for the Slayer to protect. I don't think it ever entered their head that they were causing pain, and if they were, so what, their remit was only to protect the key.

 

[Agent Z]

If the monks have the power to literally change the world by wiping the minds of thousands of people, they sure as hell are powerful enough to open a portal to another dimension.

But those are two completely separate powers.

 

[TriBel]

I think that's because the Monks were both religious and men. They are similar to the Shadow Men, they think of young girls as easily hidden and easily controlled, they wouldn't become involved in anything that would draw attention to herself, therefore easier for the Slayer to protect. I don't think it ever entered their head that they were causing pain, and if they were, so what, their remit was only to protect the key.

Nice - I like that! 🙂
 
Dawn's called "The Key" not a key. We know she can open portals in this world and other worlds. There's always a possibility her time has yet to come. I think it's bit odd naming a character after a time of day that marks the threshold of a vampire's existence if you're not going to exploituse the connection - particularly when you've already had a character called Twilight. I'm glad Spike and Dawn are BFFs. 🙂

 

[Priceless]

Nice - I like that! 🙂
 
Dawn's called "The Key" not a key. We know she can open portals in this world and other worlds. There's always a possibility her time has yet to come. I think it's bit odd naming a character after a time of day that marks the threshold of a vampire's existence if you're not going to exploituse the connection - particularly when you've already had a character called Twilight. I'm glad Spike and Dawn are BFFs. 🙂

Thanks 🙂 Dawn has opened portals in the comics and I think she is still The Key and she'll be used again in the capacity in the future. You would definitely think naming a character Dawn actually meant something in a story about vampires. Wiki says Dawn is the begining of Twilight, which is the run-in to sunrise . . . so maybe Twilight will reappear sometime too

 

[TriBel]

Thanks 🙂 Dawn has opened portals in the comics and I think she is still The Key and she'll be used again in the capacity in the future. You would definitely think naming a character Dawn actually meant something in a story about vampires. Wiki says Dawn is the begining of Twilight, which is the run-in to sunrise . . . so maybe Twilight will reappear sometime too

I had problems with Twilight* when I was thinking about - technically I don't suppose you can separate the two (bit like Yeats "dancer and the dance") because twilight is the light emitted by the rising sun. I think dawn is technically just before the sun comes over the horizon so it's a glow more than a light (effulgent - get it?). It's also his song "early one morning just as the sun was rising". It's also the time of dew (Drusilla means dew but dew for the Greeks - or Romans or someone else just slightly older than me - also means blood). Finally, he drank Morning Dew in Destiny. You think I'd be good at cryptic crossword puzzles but I'm not. 🙁 I just have too much time on my hands. 🙁 And I'm back at work tomorrow. 😱

*I'm not sure if dusk also has twilight - if so it's not unique.

 

[Priceless]

I had problems with Twilight* when I was thinking about - technically I don't suppose you can separate the two (bit like Yeats "dancer and the dance") because twilight is the light emitted by the rising sun. I think dawn is technically just before the sun comes over the horizon so it's a glow more than a light (effulgent - get it?). It's also his song "early one morning just as the sun was rising". It's also the time of dew (Drusilla means dew but dew for the Greeks - or Romans or someone else just slightly older than me - also means blood). Finally, he drank Morning Dew in Destiny. You think I'd be good at cryptic crossword puzzles but I'm not. 🙁 I just have too much time on my hands. 🙁 And I'm back at work tomorrow. 😱

*I'm not sure if dusk also has twilight - if so it's not unique.

Mind. Blown. You know far too much for one human being. Thank god I've got Wiki to turn to 😀 Dusk occurs at the darkest stage of Twilight. Though I have no idea what that means. All those things have already come into play, but do you think they will also be part of any endgame that is/has been planned? Of ourse I'm thinking way way into the future

 

[TriBel]

Dusk occurs at the darkest stage of Twilight.

I'm presuming it's the reverse of dawn: dark faint glow (dawn) proper rays (twilight) - then - getting dark - setting sun (twilight) faint glow as sun goes down (dusk). Interesting when you look at it that way. Dawn precedes everything and twilight is the result of dawn. In the evening it's the opposite - twilight marks the coming of dusk and the onset of night. The chaos you mentioned earlier is important.

This is some garbage from when I was messing about with him representing Eros: (the references should show up - I want that frame from Alone Together Now blown up - it's a stunner!

Dealing with the latter first, according to Aristophanes, “Graceful Eros with his glittering golden wings” is the offspring of “blackwinged Night”, emerging from the shadows, “the infinite deeps of Erebus”, who was himself, born of Chaos[1]. The resonance this has for “Blondie Bear/Captain Peroxide” in his black leather duster should be obvious[2]. In later myths, Eros is the son of Aphrodite and Ares, associated with various qualities including athleticism. Seen through this prism, Spike’s flippant remark, “I don't want to be this good-looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear” playfully infects the pathos of his “You’re the One” speech with bathos while simultaneously according the quip deeper significance.

Endgame - it would make sense to me but then I'm not some fat guy with a beard! Seems to me it would be mythic enough and I never really figured out whether Twilight was finished.

Present for you 🙄



[1] Aristophanes, Birds, line 685

[2] In Brian Lynch’s “Alone Together Now”, Spike refers to himself as a 8½ chaos “one being pure evil…ten being so noble it’s coma-inducing” The illustration for 10 is of Angel.
 
@Priceless - Touched!

 

[RomanticSoul]

But those are two completely separate powers.

Magical power is magical power.

 

[NothingVentured]

Because it was Buffy's destiny to stop Glory.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Well no. You wouldn’t destroy the Spear of Destiny just because Hitler wants to take over the world with it? I’m guessing here, but the Key is still a holy relic of some kind, one which is in the custody of the Order of Dagon, but does not belong to them. Sure, that doesn’t explain why all this apparently happened about when Amy Acker was born, but still.