Buffy Characters ranked from Buzzfeed

[thrasherpix]

That said, some people's immediate reaction is kind of extreme : "Spike/Spuffy conspiracy !!!". 🙄 Somehow no one screams Willow conspiracy, or Giles, or Faith. Most lists rank Spike highly, get over it. Nor is it necessary to imply being a Spike fan means being anti-feminist or rape apologist. Sing us a new tune.

That's because the extreme fans of those won't get anywhere as hypersensitive to those who criticize their favorites (often doubling by tearing other characters down that could be seen as rivals to said character), not to the same level as I see it happen in Spuffy that get all too predictable in how they will defend Spike no matter what. I once figured it was about the same as other ships, but I no longer believe that, though there are exceptions both ways (like Bangels that can be as hypsensitive defensive of their ship and Spuffy shippers that don't take it too seriously nor hate on Angel), but I now know the way to bet.

And given that Buzzfeed has some "tumblr feminism" level of cringe, such as criticizing "manterruptions" which was talking over someone rather than verbally abusing them (as if plenty of women didn't frequently interrupt both men and women as well, or that men inclined to interrupt women didn't also interrupt men as well, just another way for them to invent misogyny as if there wasn't enough real misogyny to go after) as just one of plenty of examples, then it caught me off guard that Spike would rank so highly by one of their contributors given the verbal, physical, and sexual abuse that Spike and Buffy inflicted on each other that far exceeds what plenty of Buzzfeed contributors think is unacceptable for a man to do. Perhaps this contributor diverges from many of his peers at Buzzfeed, or maybe being hot or cool (and JM can make any character seem cool) in his eyes excuses a lot that wouldn't be excused in someone else.

While I"m at it, anyone who thinks the brutal words and actions Buffy and Spike dished out on each other (that includes season 7 where Spike is mostly grovelling) isn't abusive or cruel should not be so sensitive to people criticizing Spike or Spuffy, so I'll continue to sing the tune I sing.

 

[Cheese Slices]

That's because the extreme fans of those won't get anywhere as hypersensitive to those who criticize their favorites (often doubling by tearing other characters down that could be seen as rivals to said character), not to the same level as I see it happen in Spuffy that get all too predictable in how they will defend Spike no matter what. I once figured it was about the same as other ships, but I no longer believe that, though there are exceptions both ways (like Bangels that can be as hypsensitive defensive of their ship and Spuffy shippers that don't take it too seriously nor hate on Angel), but I now know the way to bet.
.

And you know that because of your super scientific survey ? Any corner of any fandom will have its share of fanatics, and the bigger the fandom the bigger the share, and it goes for both Bangel and Spuffy. I've been in the fandom for a while now, and I can tell you that most of the Spuffies I've encountered are indifferent to Bangel at worst, and bangel themselves at best. The "the other side is only crazy people and this side is only good smart people" argument is so silly that I can't believe I have to deal with it here.

As for the rest : no one is saying that Spike/Buffy aren't mutually abusive at some point. But here's the thing : 1) I cannot think of any pairing on the show that isn't toxic at one point or another (except maybe Willow/Oz) 2) I watch Buffy because it's fascinating, deep and complex storytelling (and also lots of fun), and that includes problematic content , which is mostly well dealt with and deflty explored, so I fail to see how I shouldn't enjoy it and find it compelling.

Finally, I don't mind people criticizing Spike and/or Spuffy, I am bothered by people not being able to tell fiction from reality and attacking real people over what they enjoy in a TV show. You don't know me, or any of the people who enjoy this storyline, so have the common sense to keep from making sweeping and erroneous statements about their personal lives and beliefs.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

That's because the extreme fans of those won't get anywhere as hypersensitive to those who criticize their favorites (often doubling by tearing other characters down that could be seen as rivals to said character), not to the same level as I see it happen in Spuffy that get all too predictable in how they will defend Spike no matter what. I once figured it was about the same as other ships, but I no longer believe that, though there are exceptions both ways (like Bangels that can be as hypsensitive defensive of their ship and Spuffy shippers that don't take it too seriously nor hate on Angel), but I now know the way to bet.

Which Spuffy shippers are you takling about, though? Is it @Priceless, @flow, GoSpuffy and @Stoney who left this board, because they felt they could not walk two feet without being collectively labelled hysterical, viscious rape apologists?

 

[thrasherpix]

Which Spuffy shippers are you takling about, though? Is it @Priceless, @flow, GoSpuffy and @Stoney who left this board, because they felt they could not walk two feet without being collectively labelled hysterical, viscious rape apologists?

It does include at least some of them, yes.

The key word is how they felt. If they had their way there would never have been a negative word said about either Spike or Spuffy because they felt personally attacked every single time, no matter how dry or even light the criticism might've been, even when it criticized the relationship rather than those who enjoyed it, and all the while there are still others who shared interest and viewpoint on Spuffy. I'm sorry to see them go, but I would not swear to never speak in any way but praising of Spike and Spuffy to have them back, and if that's what they need then they SHOULD be on a Spuffy board rather than a general Buffy board.

If I felt the same way about Xander as they do about Spike and could not stand to see Xander and his relationships criticized, for example, then I'd have also fled BB for a Xander fan board rather than a general Buffy board given how much hate Xander gets, hate that I usually find over the top (though I can criticize him at times, just as I can praise Spike at times as well). And I'd see that as being me rather than Buffy Boards being mean since the boards shouldn't cater to my sensitivities (while ignoring the sensititivies of every one else who has an opinion). Likewise, we shouldn't be unable to criticize Spuffy because some people feel personally attacked, when most of the time they're not.


In any case, for me anyway, I find it surprising that a site supposedly hypersensitive and "woke" about feminism as Buzzfeed would put Spike so high on the list when they rake men over the coals for much less than what he does. If Buzzfeed didn't do that then I would not find it so surprising that Spike ranked so high.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I only know, as someone who likes Bangel and Spuffy both, that I have never gotten any grief for liking Angel or for critizising Spike but a ton of it for liking Spike and critizising Angel. People always say Spuffies dominante the fandom and are a bunch of bullies, but I have never seen any evidence of either claim. Seriously, I get grief for not appreciating Angel in the right way.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

In any case, for me anyway, I find it surprising that a site supposedly hypersensitive and "woke" about feminism as Buzzfeed would put Spike so high on the list when they rake men over the coals for much less than what he does. If Buzzfeed didn't do that then I would not find it so surprising that Spike ranked so high.

I agree with this. I like Buzzfeed. I’m generally on the same page with their social commentaries etc. But I see this on many platforms. Podcasts, social media, tumblr etc. There is, in my mind, a cognitive dissonance between progressive feminist ideas and supporting Spike’s character (and certainly his actions). I find it puzzling. Sure countless hours of academic papers, metaphorical analysis, philosophical allegory can be used to explain his behavior and even the narrative creativities of his role in the story. But I sometimes think this ignores and implicitly condones the literal story of this man’s actions where Buffy, our feminist icon, is concerned.

In an age when Ross Gellar has become the most problematic character on social media and other progressive publications, how is Spike given a pass?

 

[Cheese Slices]

In an age when Ross Gellar has become the most problematic character on social media and other progressive publications, how is Spike given a pass?

Could it be that *gasps* people have a different analysis/opinion of the same character ?
Not that Spike is ever given a pass, mind you.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Could it be that *gasps* people have a different analysis/opinion of the same character ?
Not that Spike is ever given a pass, mind you.

I’m sorry which is it? Is Spike never given a pass or am I just super wrong about Spike’s actions on the show being in contradiction to progressive ideologies?

 

[thrasherpix]

Could it be that *gasps* people have a different analysis/opinion of the same character ?
Not that Spike is ever given a pass, mind you.

You're not the only one defending him and Spuffy, and never were (an automatic way to get Likes is to praise Spike and Spuffy), and you're the one who seems offended that people have different perspectives. I suppose you believe that only those who love Spuffy left because Spike and Spuffy is the only one to ever get harshly criticized. 🙄

Though interesting question (to me)...has anyone left over other ships or characters being criticized? I do recall one left because she couldn't stand people defending Spuffy, and my feeling was the same about those leaving because they can't handle Spuffy being criticized (sad to see her go but not going to make it so that views different from hers can't be expressed).

 

[Cheese Slices]

I’m sorry which is it? Is Spike never given a pass or am I just super wrong about Spike’s actions on the show being in contradiction to progressive ideologies?

It means that people aknowledge the wrongness of his actions but also see clearly that said actions are condemned by the show itself (and the characters) and have a role in the narrative.
That's the big difference with characters like Ross : their awfulness is never recognized and properly dealt with (it's unintentional most of time) , which definitively isn't the case with Spike.

@thrasherpix Again, none of them have issues with people hating Spuffy, nor do I. I've been here a while, and I can tell you that what is out of line is the frequent insults that deflect on/to the fans themselves instead of the pairing/character. Not that long ago we were called repugnant on these very boards, and last time I checked a post calling JM a pedophile was still up.
This is what made them leave, not people hating on fictional characters.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

not going to make it so that views different from hers can't be expressed

I don't want people to stop calling out Spike's toxic behaviour. I just wish people were less crass and wouldn't make sweeping statements about whole strata of the fandom that don't reflect reality.

 

[thetopher]

This whole 'Spuffies have left the boards because they get persecuted' is simply bunk. I've seen the ebb and flow of these things over a few years, in the past where there were tons of Spike/Spuffy fans who dominated and always wanted to discuss Spike and no-one else and were....less than complimentary when Spike was criticized or even simply critiqued.
A quick walk through the Sunnydale graveyard will show the debates, the name-calling, all the drama and acrimony that was- by and large- caused by some (not all) Spike fans.

Other characters are criticized or hated-on as frequently if not more-so with incredible levels of vitriol; Xander (toxic masculinity/nice-guy syndrome'/not funny), Faith( rapist! she's a horrible rapist and should've died), Dawn (she's a whiny two-dimensional brat who ruined the show!), Angel (bullying alpha male mind-rapist/boring), and the list goes on; Willow, Riley, Wesley- they all get shade thrown their way at one time or another.
And guess what? the fans of those characters are still here to debate because that's what you do on discussion boards; you discuss and debate about things you are passionate about.
You love this character? Why? Tell me and I'll tell you and back and forth, but don't whine because you so closely identify with said character that it feels like a personal attack, because in actual fact its just a difference of perspective.
If someone leaves then that's ON THEM. No more of this 'the meanies won't let me play' crap.

Oh, and this opinion piece is just that. Opinion. By Buzzfeed. So top quality writing, reasoning and research is certainly not guaranteed.

 

[Puppet]

This thread kinda spiraled quickly, didn't it?

I'm with @thetopher on this one. Even though I wasn't around in 'those days' I went through the cemetery threads when I first joined last year and saw the evidence for myself.

Also, while I would never speak for my former Spuffy board-mates, my memory tells me they left due to the changes in the shipping forums; they didn't feel like they had a safe place to discuss their favorite romance. Now maybe part of that was because they got vitriol in return from some members, but I just maybe don't think it's fair to claim that you know exactly why these people left.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

If someone leaves then that's ON THEM. No more of this 'the meanies won't let me play' crap.

Well, I was challenging the claim that the Spuffies are the 'meanies,' which is a claim I see chanted around the boards all the time. The nicest people I've met on this boards are mostly Spuffies, though I am aware that we have a tendency to see the people who agree with us as nicer and generally more agreeable than the ones who don't. If the mean Spuffies are merely Spuffies of the distant past, then please say so, otherwise us Spuffies of the present may take offence.

Also, while I would never speak for my former Spuffy board-mates, my memory tells me they left due to the changes in the shipping forums; they didn't feel like they had a safe place to discuss their favorite romance. Now maybe part of that was because they got vitriol in return from some members, but I just maybe don't think it's fair to claim that you know exactly why these people left.

It's not like I am their advocate or anything, but I spoke with them a lot before or after they left, so I think I know the particulars fairly well. I am sure they'll tell me if they feel I misrepresent them.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I think Spike always tends to rank highly on these sorts of things because the awesomeness of his early seasons (particularly Season 2) carries him through the rest of the series when he wasn't as great a character as he used to be. Basically first impressions count. Spike made a big positive first impression and garnered the love and popularity of the audience which means that people are more forgiving of the poor writing for his character in later seasons.

Had he only received a luke warm reception upon his introduction and the series played out the same, then I don't think he would be ranked as highly as he normally is. Season 2 Spike does all the legwork.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

As for the list itself, I disagree fervently. I mean, it is fun to see Will at the top, but otherwise I find it quite baffling ... Spike, Faith and Giles before Buffy? ... Fred at number 6!!??? Angel below Jonathan, Andrew, Illyria and Angelus?

And ... of course ... Kennedy at the bottom 🙁 Actually, there are a lot of characters I quite like at the bottom.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

As for the list itself, I disagree fervently. I mean, it is fun to see Will at the top, but otherwise I find it quite baffling ... Spike, Faith and Giles before Buffy? ... Fred at number 6!!??? Angel below Jonathan, Andrew, Illyria and Angelus?

I would expect to see Spike and Willow in the top 3 because they are very popular characters. I agree about Buffy and Angel, I thought they would've been higher on the list. Angel should've at least been top 10 (and Angelus included as part of his character rather than a separate one) whilst Buffy should've been top 3. Faith should've been lower, Andrew should've been lower, only 5 of the potentials should've been included (Kennedy, Rona, Chao-ahn, Vi and Amanda- the others were basically red shirts).

 

[Mylie]

Kennedy lower than Hank Summers?? NO WAY.

#JusticeForKennedy

How is Warren the 23rd best buffyverse character? 😵

 

[Antho]

That said, some people's immediate reaction is kind of extreme : "Spike/Spuffy conspiracy !!!"

I have read all the comment and I have seen no one except you who spoke about something extreme like a Spike/Spuffy conspiracy. People were just saying that only a Spike/Spuffy fan can do a list like this one where Spike and Buffy are very high and Angel so very low. Excuse me but that's a right assumptions. I mean, come on,
you can not hide the forest with only one tree ! There are things that are seen a thousand kilometers in advance. So yeah people said things that are 100% true for me and.... that's all ! The writer had the right to did this list, it's his opinion, he shared it, fine, I have no problem with that. We all can share our list and the preferences will be seen immediatly. In fact, I don't see where is the problem ? People have the right to share a list of their favorite character or something else, and according to this list other people have the right to make assumptions that are for the majority basically true

 

[thetopher]

In an unbiased poll Buffy should be number one, that's it. Angel should also be in the top 5, no way he isn't.
But we all have our personal opinions and the Buzzfeed one is a stupid one. Even though Faith is ranked high, which is entirely correct because her arc is one of the best on the show. Other characters, who got more screen time and brought more entertainment, should also be high.

Well, I was challenging the claim that the Spuffies are the 'meanies,' which is a claim I see chanted around the boards all the time.

Because people have memories I guess, and base their opinions on past experience.
Plus 'all the time'? I read posts from a few members- maybe- who say that but on the whole these boards are well moderated and a very non-contentious place. Most members are fair to people of all persuasions.
Like I said it ebbs and flows, when the Spuffies were more promentant they made their dislike of differeing charactrers and ships very clear. Angel was a particularly favored target.

The nicest people I've met on this boards are mostly Spuffies, though I am aware that we have a tendency to see the people who agree with us as nicer and generally more agreeable than the ones who don't.

Yes, if you like Spike- or are at least tolerant of his plot lines- then you'll get along with Spuffies just fine and see them in their best light. Why would you argue if you all agree in principal.

If the mean Spuffies are merely Spuffies of the distant past, then please say so, otherwise us Spuffies of the present may take offence.

The main point isn't that Spuffies 'are meaner' than anyone else- cleary most not, just that the ones that left don't play well with others. Sorry but in my experience that's the reason why they left, even though they had been given their own special place on the board to dscuss the endless wonders of Spike.