Certain errors/issues with buffy the vampire slayer?

[Mohammad Khawar]

So I wanted to ask, what do you guys think about certain issues with buffy mentioned in the video below? Also, this is only for fun and discussion... I love digging into shows and just coming up with some creative fan theories.. So this isn't me dissing buffy, If you have read my previous threads, you would know that I LOOVVEE Buffy and made a lot of stuff related to it like video games and stuff. This is just for fun and discussion with the possibility of coming up with fun fan theories so please dont get angry. Also, if you noticed any aside from these, let me know 😉 thanks

 

[Bop]

1. Vampire clothes vanishing: This doesn't really bother me, it looks cooler for everything to disappear.

2. It did bother me that Buffy wore fancy stuff and lived in a big house while talking about being broke because it almost makes a mockery out of poverty. If they were trying to make Buffy poor, then she needs to actually act like she's poor.

3. I don't consider what Faith did to Riley as rape so the fact that it was not brought up never bothered me. I do think that the writers probably should have focused more than they did on what Faith did to Xander.

4. I've never had that high of an opinion of Giles so I wasn't too let down by him leaving but yes it was unfair of him to leave Buffy.

 

[Mohammad Khawar]

1. Vampire clothes vanishing: This doesn't really bother me, it looks cooler for everything to disappear.

2. It did bother me that Buffy wore fancy stuff and lived in a big house while talking about being broke because it almost makes a mockery out of poverty. If they were trying to make Buffy poor, then she needs to actually act like she's poor.

3. I don't consider what Faith did to Riley as rape so the fact that it was not brought up never bothered me. I do think that the writers probably should have focused more than they did on what Faith did to Xander.

4. I've never had that high of an opinion of Giles so I wasn't too let down by him leaving but yes it was unfair of him to leave Buffy.

Hey 🙂 those are interesting points. however for the first one, I agree with you.... It was better that clothes vanished but it would have been better if we knew an explanation behind it.. Can't really come up with a theory for this one..
second one, yes so true.. Perhaps if they didn't bring up money problems AT ALL in season 6.. It would be less bothering but the whole season was about being poor and yet there no one seemed even close to poor.. everyone had trendy clothes and stuff.. A fan came up with an epic theory, here is how it goes: When buffy goes to meet angel, she tells him about her situation so he, as a businessman, decides to transfer money on her account however, buffy felt very guilty about it so she never spoke on it and at the same time tried to get on her feet and earn money.. Seems cool what do u think?
third one, well.. there is a term called "Rape by Deception" .. Basically riley agrees to sleep with buffy.. Not faith. Its actually a crime in US too.. Or at least in some states, if you google rape by deception you will understand it better cos i dont think i am explaining so well..
forth one, eh yea.. he had his.. asshole..ish moments haha xD

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Asking why the vampire's clothes disappear and from where Buffy gets her money is a bit like asking why the bullets never hit James Bond. Buffy exists within a highly stylised reality. It is what makes the show work. A realistic depiction of what it means to quite College to provide for a younger sister would not have worked. Buffy is more like allegory.

 

[Bop]

third one, well.. there is a term called "Rape by Deception" .. Basically riley agrees to sleep with buffy.. Not faith.

I just don't think that definition, or any definition, works in this magical situation. I don't see it as rape because Riley had sex with the body that he agreed to have sex with. If anything, Buffy was raped by Riley because Riley had sex with Buffy's body without her permission. But still, that idea doesn't work in this situation because it's completely not Riley's fault. So..I just put a label of 'wrong' on that whole situation and leave it at that.

 

[Puppet]

On the concept of the money issues, I always felt like S6 was so dark, that showing this poverty wouldn't have made viewers quit watching, if everything else didn't do it. A storyline of Buffy and Dawn forced to move into a small apartment (ala Anne only slightly bigger) and having to say goodbye to a house that holds such memories of happier times with their mom woulda broken my heart, but for TV it woulda been a great storyline. It also would have forced the writers to actually think outside the box in S7 when all of those Potentials arrived 🙂

 

[thrasherpix]

1. My head canon is that the "demonic presence" of the vampire saturates the clothes and such so that when the demonic essence breaks apart, so does the rest. In theory, if a vampire had just put on a new shirt or grabbed a brand new wallet from a victim then it MIGHT survive the dusting (and maybe that's how Faith got her own place in season 3, stayed fed and washed her clothes, etc, and also how Angel supported himself in LA without a job). Also, important and magical items sometimes survived, which perhaps showed such things had an aura of their own that prevented the "vampire essence" from saturating them.


2. Oh gods, I could write an essay on the many problems of season 6, and why I thought the writers all grew up with silver spoons in their mouths. Buffy's jewelry and clothes isn't the only thing that was problematic, if you want to show she has money problems with her primary income being an entry-level fast food position. I know some people feel that season 6 is the most realistic, which I believe is simply because the characters became more relatable rather than it being realistic (that is, it FELT realistic as long as you didn't think about it), but it actually broke my suspension of disbelief for the first time to me, because I actually dealt with many of those issues and season 6 just got ridiculous in depicting them, IMO. All I'll say on the clothes is it was probably the fashion industry trying to test or market some new looks (that is, forces outside the story).

I see now that it is going into other issues, but to explore that idea fully is to make my essay which I don't want to do...and I'd find it the most challenging to make that make sense. I think it would literally be easier to rewrite it from scratch in my head than explain away all the stupid stuff they did in season 6.

It would've been really interesting, IMO, to force Buffy to live as Faith did in season 3, on welfare (which even in California is like a full time job, and there are also limits that many people don't seem aware of), and keeping Dawn in school. 'Course others (like Willow and Tara) could no longer live with them then. That would've actually been realistic, unlike what we got.



3. Actually, it seemed to me the writers DID try to show at least a reversal of male/female dynamics if not rape when Faith jumped Xander. I don't want to see the scene again, but seeing the reflection in a TV screen, IIRC, made it really disturbing to me, which I thought was intentional. What was sad is that Xander actually thought they had "a moment." Calling what she did rape of Xander is debatable (I can see a case for and against it), but I felt bad for Xander regardless. (And Faith later telling Anya "I had him first" is just really obnoxious.) The second time where Faith started strangling him would, I think, be classified as sexual assault in unambiguous terms (at least as surveys, polls, and the like count it where even unwanted touching counts as sexual assault, and Faith went beyond that even before she switched to strangling him).

But yeah, since rape is about lacking informed consent (that is, it doesn't have to be about breaking your bones at the same time or using a deadly weapon, it can be drugging a victim, or even imitating someone else in the dark). Of course it's not a case that can be prosecuted given the supernatural element involved. On this one the writers really messed it up, and also made Buffy look really petty to me when she's not even seeing it as rape of herself (which it also was) and of Riley, but instead making her near insane (at least very petty) with jealousy rather than seeing it for what it was.



4. Back to season 6. Same as #2 in that I could write an essay. It was not only stupid, it was out of character. Season 4 and 5 Giles felt bad when he felt he was no longer necessary, but now he's going to force Buffy to sink or swim? BS. And I consider his reasons he gives in the song to represent the extremism of individualism that is romanticized in the United States (though shaped to serve big business, and arguably big government ironically enough), and I'd have hoped that the British would have better sense than that...especially given that Giles is trained to serve in the support role. Nikki Wood had a Watcher until the very end, after all, who then raised Nikki's son after Nikki was killed by Spike.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

1. Having piles of clothing lying around would be distracting and it would also demonstrate to the public who were not supposed to know about the slayer that someone was in the business of killing demons, so having clothes disappear leaving no trace is a reasonable idea.

2. Buffy had a golden opportunity to become rich but didn't take it. When she talked to her former manager at Doublemeat Palace, she had Willow's assay of what was in their "meat", namely vegetable matter with fat drippings from meat to add meat flavour. Buffy could have extorted money from them for keeping this a secret and the money could have been millions. As it was, she had money from insurance (although most of that had gone for medical expenses) and Giles had written a cheque to cover a lot of expenses.

3. Did Faith rape Riley? According to the law, it would violate the requirement for informed consent. She took Xander by force and the only way this could not be considered rape is if he agreed to it.

4. After Helpless, I lost all respect for Giles, so him running out on Buffy did not seem out of character. He had given her a substantial cheque to cover expenses but money was not the biggest issue here. She needed his presence and guidance because she certainly wasn't all that functional on her own. Giles had thought of leaving on a previous occasion in "Dracula" and only stopped when Buffy asked him to train her in the past of the slayer line. The story could have been an emergency at the Watchers' Council or Giles family back home which would have made him seem to be less of a douche.

 

[Mohammad Khawar]

Asking why the vampire's clothes disappear and from where Buffy gets her money is a bit like asking why the bullets never hit James Bond. Buffy exists within a highly stylised reality. It is what makes the show work. A realistic depiction of what it means to quite College to provide for a younger sister would not have worked. Buffy is more like allegory.

Hey 🙂 well.. I understand ur point that if someone just looks at these stuff and decides to diss buffy or not watch it then he is dumb haha.. However, I would say that vamp clothes dusting and money thing was kinda an issue different from james bond's skills cos his ability to escape bullets falls under his amazing skills.. Same with buffy.. she escaped bullets many times.. the thing with the money one is that the entire 6th season is centered around depression, abuse, and money problems.. where we see her constantly struggling to get money and yet she is up-to-date with trendy clothing.. So that kinda messed it up a bit.. Its like watching a movie about this mentally ill person being admitted to a hospital where its made very clear that he is mental but we see no signs at all of him actually being insane 🙂 We should come up with theories tho.. That will be cool
 

1. My head canon is that the "demonic presence" of the vampire saturates the clothes and such so that when the demonic essence breaks apart, so does the rest. In theory, if a vampire had just put on a new shirt or grabbed a brand new wallet from a victim then it MIGHT survive the dusting (and maybe that's how Faith got her own place in season 3, stayed fed and washed her clothes, etc, and also how Angel supported himself in LA without a job). Also, important and magical items sometimes survived, which perhaps showed such things had an aura of their own that prevented the "vampire essence" from saturating them.


2. Oh gods, I could write an essay on the many problems of season 6, and why I thought the writers all grew up with silver spoons in their mouths. Buffy's jewelry and clothes isn't the only thing that was problematic, if you want to show she has money problems with her primary income being an entry-level fast food position. I know some people feel that season 6 is the most realistic, which I believe is simply because the characters became more relatable rather than it being realistic (that is, it FELT realistic as long as you didn't think about it), but it actually broke my suspension of disbelief for the first time to me, because I actually dealt with many of those issues and season 6 just got ridiculous in depicting them, IMO. All I'll say on the clothes is it was probably the fashion industry trying to test or market some new looks (that is, forces outside the story).

I see now that it is going into other issues, but to explore that idea fully is to make my essay which I don't want to do...and I'd find it the most challenging to make that make sense. I think it would literally be easier to rewrite it from scratch in my head than explain away all the stupid stuff they did in season 6.

It would've been really interesting, IMO, to force Buffy to live as Faith did in season 3, on welfare (which even in California is like a full time job, and there are also limits that many people don't seem aware of), and keeping Dawn in school. 'Course others (like Willow and Tara) could no longer live with them then. That would've actually been realistic, unlike what we got.



3. Actually, it seemed to me the writers DID try to show at least a reversal of male/female dynamics if not rape when Faith jumped Xander. I don't want to see the scene again, but seeing the reflection in a TV screen, IIRC, made it really disturbing to me, which I thought was intentional. What was sad is that Xander actually thought they had "a moment." Calling what she did rape of Xander is debatable (I can see a case for and against it), but I felt bad for Xander regardless. (And Faith later telling Anya "I had him first" is just really obnoxious.) The second time where Faith started strangling him would, I think, be classified as sexual assault in unambiguous terms (at least as surveys, polls, and the like count it where even unwanted touching counts as sexual assault, and Faith went beyond that even before she switched to strangling him).

But yeah, since rape is about lacking informed consent (that is, it doesn't have to be about breaking your bones at the same time or using a deadly weapon, it can be drugging a victim, or even imitating someone else in the dark). Of course it's not a case that can be prosecuted given the supernatural element involved. On this one the writers really messed it up, and also made Buffy look really petty to me when she's not even seeing it as rape of herself (which it also was) and of Riley, but instead making her near insane (at least very petty) with jealousy rather than seeing it for what it was.



4. Back to season 6. Same as #2 in that I could write an essay. It was not only stupid, it was out of character. Season 4 and 5 Giles felt bad when he felt he was no longer necessary, but now he's going to force Buffy to sink or swim? BS. And I consider his reasons he gives in the song to represent the extremism of individualism that is romanticized in the United States (though shaped to serve big business, and arguably big government ironically enough), and I'd have hoped that the British would have better sense than that...especially given that Giles is trained to serve in the support role. Nikki Wood had a Watcher until the very end, after all, who then raised Nikki's son after Nikki was killed by Spike.

Yours is an epic response haha. Yea although season 6 does a pretty cool depiction of depression, like losing yourself and stuff.. But it failed to remain realistic.. Giles leaving, Tara leaving and no explanation on where she stays as she had no money either cos her family cut her off, how they ever paid the amount for the house.. Remember dawn confuses the amount with phone number as it was a loooot.. So even if giles gave her 10,000 dollars, I don't understand how it covered everything.
 

1. Having piles of clothing lying around would be distracting and it would also demonstrate to the public who were not supposed to know about the slayer that someone was in the business of killing demons, so having clothes disappear leaving no trace is a reasonable idea.

2. Buffy had a golden opportunity to become rich but didn't take it. When she talked to her former manager at Doublemeat Palace, she had Willow's assay of what was in their "meat", namely vegetable matter with fat drippings from meat to add meat flavour. Buffy could have extorted money from them for keeping this a secret and the money could have been millions. As it was, she had money from insurance (although most of that had gone for medical expenses) and Giles had written a cheque to cover a lot of expenses.

3. Did Faith rape Riley? According to the law, it would violate the requirement for informed consent. She took Xander by force and the only way this could not be considered rape is if he agreed to it.

4. After Helpless, I lost all respect for Giles, so him running out on Buffy did not seem out of character. He had given her a substantial cheque to cover expenses but money was not the biggest issue here. She needed his presence and guidance because she certainly wasn't all that functional on her own. Giles had thought of leaving on a previous occasion in "Dracula" and only stopped when Buffy asked him to train her in the past of the slayer line. The story could have been an emergency at the Watchers' Council or Giles family back home which would have made him seem to be less of a douche.

Hmm I like your theory! Its interesting 😀
 

On the concept of the money issues, I always felt like S6 was so dark, that showing this poverty wouldn't have made viewers quit watching, if everything else didn't do it. A storyline of Buffy and Dawn forced to move into a small apartment (ala Anne only slightly bigger) and having to say goodbye to a house that holds such memories of happier times with their mom woulda broken my heart, but for TV it woulda been a great storyline. It also would have forced the writers to actually think outside the box in S7 when all of those Potentials arrived 🙂

Yea but they touched on the money problems.. A LOT hehe xD in fact, the season 6 is mostly about money issues so I don't think it was smart of them to touch on the topic and then just show buffy living an extravagant-type life

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Hey 🙂 well.. I understand ur point that if someone just looks at these stuff and decides to diss buffy or not watch it then he is dumb haha.. However, I would say that vamp clothes dusting and money thing was kinda an issue different from james bond's skills cos his ability to escape bullets falls under his amazing skills.. Same with buffy.. she escaped bullets many times.. the thing with the money one is that the entire 6th season is centered around depression, abuse, and money problems.. where we see her constantly struggling to get money and yet she is up-to-date with trendy clothing.. So that kinda messed it up a bit.. Its like watching a movie about this mentally ill person being admitted to a hospital where its made very clear that he is mental but we see no signs at all of him actually being insane 🙂 We should come up with theories tho.. That will be cool

No, no, no, no! Buffy clearly communicates what kind of a show it is. We all know that we can expect: 1) Comedy 2) Emotional Drama 3) Allegorical explorations of moral and philosophical issues. We also know that there is no reason to expect: 1) Documentary style realism 2) A focus on boring trivialities

 

[thrasherpix]

No, no, no, no! Buffy clearly communicates what kind of a show it is. We all know that we can expect: 1) Comedy 2) Emotional Drama 3) Allegorical explorations of moral and philosophical issues. We also know that there is no reason to expect: 1) Documentary style realism 2) A focus on boring trivialities

IIRC, the writers did say they were trying to make season 6 realistic. I think it was even on one of the interviews of the season 6 dvds. It also appears the season that they started taking themselves and the show too seriously whereas before (especially the first 3 seasons) there was a tongue in cheek feeling about it, a wink at the audience for want of a better phrase. And I believe interviews by cast and crew also said season 6 was when the writers started to take their show too seriously.

 

[Taake]

Asking why the vampire's clothes disappear and from where Buffy gets her money is a bit like asking why the bullets never hit James Bond. Buffy exists within a highly stylised reality. It is what makes the show work. A realistic depiction of what it means to quite College to provide for a younger sister would not have worked. Buffy is more like allegory.

But if the clothes hadn't disappeared we would've known why her closet was so well stocked even though she didn't have any money 😀

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

IIRC, the writers did say they were trying to make season 6 realistic. I think it was even on one of the interviews of the season 6 dvds. It also appears the season that they started taking themselves and the show too seriously whereas before (especially the first 3 seasons) there was a tongue in cheek feeling about it, a wink at the audience for want of a better phrase. And I believe interviews by cast and crew also said season 6 was when the writers started to take their show too seriously.

Buffy is not simply a wish fulfilment fantasy show. In deals with issues that most of us face. I assume that is what the writers mean by making it more realistic. Writers say all kinds of things to get people to watch, and many people seem to think realism is a virtue. As for the show taking itself too seriously, that is a bit of a different issue. I am sure that refers to the darker tone and heavier themes of season 6. I think s6 deserves praise for being both dark and funny at the same time (OMWF).

Realism in fiction is just silly. A realistic story would be a probable story, no? If you are going to tell a probable story, why not simply tell something that actually happened? Fiction needs to separate itself from nonfiction to make us of its full potential.