Dawn is the key!

[hoponlilmama]

Talking about letting Dawn know she was the key, should the other Scoobies have been told? The more people who know, the easier it is for a secret to come out, and Anya has all the ability for lying and dissembling that comes naturally to a carrot.

Might is have been better for Buffy and Giles to say "We know what the Key is, but sharing it increases your danger" or something? I can see the logic for telling the others, but it does increase the risk (no, I don't blame Spike for Dawn finding out and yes I agree with him).

There were issues with not telling them; witness Riley in Family. From his point of view, his girlfriend is lying to him and lying about lying to him with no explanation as to why. I don't think Buffy should have told him, but she should have told him she couldn't share because of, well, operational security. Riley's a soldier; he understands things like that. As it was, his response was perfectly justified. If he had the same response after Buffy told him why she couldn't say more, that would be a different matter.

It's a tough one.

By not telling them it can pose a problem if Glory captured one Buffy's friends and they had no idea what was going on. Giles and Buffy did briefly mention that knowledge of who the Key was should remain just between the both of them.

Of course, being captured by a hell God with or without the knowledge of what Dawn was wouldn't make a difference, I guess. They could die either way.

They're all putting their lives on the line, so perhaps they have a right to know?

thrasherpix I love the show despite all the headcanon I have to come up with to fill in plot holes and character moments.

Of course! Doesn't mean we love the show any less. 🙂

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Well, it's like the finale to the Matrix Revolutions. If you have to have multiple doctorates in computer science and theology for the ending to make sense, it's the writer's fault. And I liked that ending.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

Telling as few people as possible was the right call. Even after Glory is defeated, someone whose blood can open portals is someone who should guard the secret. Can you imagine how stupid the military might get if they knew?

i would not tell people about Dawn unless there was a very good reason. I am of the opinion that she was saved by the monks because the future of the planet might depend on it - if not, why not just destroy the key? But we did not get a Buffy (TV) season 8 9 and 10 as should have been! Nope; the comics are fanfic. Fanfic and badfic!

___

I do understand the scoobies wanting to know and feeling that they are the ones putting their lives at risk... But the military has top secret, sensitive compartmented information for a reason. Even people of similar rank and trust arent always cleared if they don't need to know.

Buffy and Giles were right to attempt it. Operationally, it can also be argued that eventually they did need to know. Especially when it became clear every mentally compromised person could give up the game and not knowing increased the danger.

Sensitive compartmented information - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And PS: i dont trust Riley with secrets. He could not keep his secret from Buffy et al upon almost first contact with conflict. Even with her 'seeing' something, his correct answer should have been "no comment" and "you are not authorized to talk about this". If he cant be secret about his own miltary career, and his own security, i would not trust him with a secret as juicy as the key - where Buffy and co have no military to back up any efforts at secrecy.

It is different after Adam escapes. At that point, it became unclassifiable and getting help was a matter of national security.

 

[hoponlilmama]

NotASlayer Yes, the right to know thing was the logic used in the show, but I do wonder if it was the right reason and not just the emotionally right reason.

I guess it was option C; have the Scoobies know and them have them acting completely weird about Dawn, so she picks up on the fact they're keeping something from her.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Well, remember that one scene where Dawn tells Ben that she is the Key? Think of that from her perspective, she proclaims herself, Glory appears. That's what the Scoobies think happened for like four months, and who knows if they ever revisited those events? So they probably had a policy not to talk about the Key. However, if Anya knew, I don't think it mattered if, let's say, Gunn knew.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Dawn came into existence with a massive change in everyone's memories and I wonder if Giles had shot her off the platform, would everyone begin to forget her? It would be like everyone gradually forgot Johnathan being a superstar once the spell was reversed. I have often thought that someone would remember Dawn, perhaps longer than Buffy but would find the question of "Dawn who?" would impel him or her to keep it quiet after everyone else's memories had faded.

 

[Kendar]

The monks' spell is the most powerful, and, really, the most evil, spell cast in the entire Buffyverse. Yes, it was cast with good intentions - save existence - but that doesn't change the fact that they altered the memories, and therefore the identity, of hundreds, if not thousands of people. All of whom now have memories of lives that never existed, which will have shaped what they do in ways that are based on falsehood. And that's even without considering what the health hazards might have been. The three with the biggest changes would be Joyce, Buffy and Hank. Joyce died from a brain tumour, Hank was off in Spain as if Dawn didn't exist and Buffy ended up in the relationship equivalent of cutting herself.

Probably a lot more than just a few thousand. Let's see...

Faith and Angel, who are both in LA, now believe Buffy has a sister. So the spell reaches that far.

Dawn's school apparently doesn't question the existence of Dawn suddenly showing up. Actually, that shows the spell is even more detailed, since it strongly suggests Dawn has a paper trail as well.

Honestly the spell is probably world-wide.

 

[NotASlayer]

Probably a lot more than just a few thousand. Let's see...

Faith and Angel, who are both in LA, now believe Buffy has a sister. So the spell reaches that far.

Dawn's school apparently doesn't question the existence of Dawn suddenly showing up. Actually, that shows the spell is even more detailed, since it strongly suggests Dawn has a paper trail as well.

Honestly the spell is probably world-wide.

It's really hard to judge just how many people would be affected. In some cases, that would be in very minor ways, but in other cases much more. The school is one; those who have classes with Dawn will have memories of her going back several years, they probably have memories of her at out of school events, teachers will remember teaching her, parents will remember her with their children, everyone who might have had Dawn mentioned to them will have at least some kind of memory. And that's just from the school.

This is only the current school too. She "went" to one before coming to Sunnydale, and that plays out all over again with that school. I know I was underestimating deliberately, because the potential number is much, much larger. Sure, we may have only a few people we interact with a lot on a day to day basis, but there are hundreds at schools who would at the very least likely recognise someone by sight.

And this is a spell that was cast under... less than ideal conditions.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Well, if an puny vengeance demon like Anyanka could alter a past event from the present, then the Key, which I think is either divine or part divine, can surely be retroactive as well, like dropping a pebble upstream in the river of time from the present. Like how Sarah Sisko was probably not part of the original timeline in Deep Space Nine? Like, I don't think the Wolfram & Hart adjustment bureau showed up, cast a glamour, some memory charms and altered yearbooks, it's a deeper cut than that.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Dawn came into existence with a massive change in everyone's memories and I wonder if Giles had shot her off the platform, would everyone begin to forget her? It would be like everyone gradually forgot Johnathan being a superstar once the spell was reversed. I have often thought that someone would remember Dawn, perhaps longer than Buffy but would find the question of "Dawn who?" would impel him or her to keep it quiet after everyone else's memories had faded.

I also think this was a good way to jump into s6 (if Buffy hadn't sacrificed herself). Dawn dies. Buffy feels like she failed her, but somehow the memory of Dawn due to her death is erased from everyone else's memory, except Buffy's.

 

[NoShip]

I'm pretty sure Buffy had mentioned being an only child actually

Buffy mentioned it in S1 and in S1's Nightmares it was part of the Buffy's Daddy Nightmare plot.

In S3, when Faith appeared, Giles told Buffy that her issues with Faith were because she was an only child.

In S4's Living Conditions, Giles told Buffy that her problems with Cathy stemmed from being an only child.

 

[garfan]

Dawn being The Key would've been more impactful if it had led anywhere; but all the people who know about her origins and true purpose- the monks mainly- are killed before they can reveal much.
Okay, so Dawn is The Key, the Key to what exactly? We never find out what she is really or where she comes from. We know that Glory wants her but since the Key is way older then Hellgod-Glory then its kind of a weak relationship/conflict to base the season upon; not as weak as Riley/Adam was but weaker than anything from the high school years.


What saves the whole thing is that Buffy finds out at the right time- way before everyone else except Giles- and so has a more informed choice when it comes to investing in her sister as a sister and not just as a magical McGuffin she must protect.

But really Dawn would've benefited on a latter season exploring her actual nature/origins and really delving into how she feels about being new...but instead of that the writers completely discarding it for other shiny new plot points.

I wonder when the idea for the Key was conceived it was basically supposed to be the Seed of Wonder

 

[garfan]

I wonder when the idea for the Key was conceived it was basically supposed to be the Seed of Wonder

macguffin from season 8 of the comics. It's the source of magic and supernatural stuff. There's some stuff about it being used to overwrite reality and Buffy destroys it. After that there's no new magic, but stuff that already has a magical charge maintains it. Vampires who try to sire people end up with a mindless thing commonly nicknamed zompires. No new Slayers called, etc. Well, seemingly human creativity goes with it so it has to be undone