LGBTQ acceptance dropping among Millennials

[WillowFromBuffy]

What baffles me is ... gay people tend to have a sense of humour about themselves, don't they? That's why we call them fabulous, no? Because they tend to be fun people to hang out with.

What do we call straight people? We call them straight. Pretty descriptive most of the time.

The Boston Straight Pride Parade is probably going to be a pretty dour event. Hopefully, it will cause a backlash from Millennials.

 

[nightshade]

Let's calm this down and keep it to the topic, people may believe Trump is a reason for the decline, but let's no focus on him and politics.

 

[katmobile]

Just because the President doesn't condemn every single group that whining, Democratic bedwetters want him to, it doesn't make him "racist." At this point, the constant shrieks and unfounded accusations directed at Mr Trump have become extremely moronic.

The vast majority of Democratic crybabies are simply repeating what they've heard from the leftwing media. No one is actually thinking for themselves. You're jumping on a bandwagon without forming an original thought. His policies are anti-Mexican? Wrong. His policies are pro-American. He's the first president to actually address the HUGE problem of illegal immigration, unlike that grinning marionette, Barrack Obama. But sadly, half of Mexico is already here, illegally, receiving benefits they're NOT entitled to, popping out thousands of babies, and basically sucking up money, housing, schooling that we can ill-afford. Thank God for the current ICE raids, because this bullshit needs to stop.

American Veterans, seniors, and young families are living on the street. Why is it that THEY don't qualify for housing and food stamps, but illegals do? Why aren't you "champions of freedom" marching in the streets for THEM?


Obviously, she can answer this question herself; but I'm going to throw my two cents in.

Liberals and Democrats want to censor every opinion that doesn't conform with theirs. Their modus operandi is to scream, "Homophobe! Racist! Sexist!" whenever someone dares to express a view which differs from theirs. The sadly pathetic truth is, they don't want to discuss anything. They just want to shut everyone else down. Period. Like demented toddlers having a temper tantrum, they whine and throw themselves onto the floor. "No! You can't say that! It's wrong and you're bad!"

These people aren't even willing to consider opposing views, but expect everyone else to accept their opinions as "truth". And if anyone dares to disagree, they're immediately persecuted. Rabid Democrats are a lot like Hitler's followers.

Trump doesn't care about vets either. Jon Stewart one the people you hate has been battling for years to get the first responders to 9/11 a fair deal for years these guys have medical bills no one will help them with because capitalism rules and nothing not even heroes can impede it's progress. You know what would help vets - a system that supports people who fall through the cracks you know like free healthcare and benefits but oh no that's too socialist for you. Let me tell you something the left fights for everyone who can't fight for themself that the system is against or it should. Also you talk about US being snowflakes what about Trump declaring every opinion he doesn't like 'fake news' and the anti university bias of right wingers who don't like what's been taught there. The right censors just as much as the left does and it doesn't do to try and protect vulnerable groups from hate speech which will encourage people to direct more vitriol and preduice their way.
As for the ravaging hoards of breeding Mexicans citation needed because Fox news and El Presidente are NOT reliable sources.

 

[Taake]

The Boston Straight Pride Parade is probably going to be a pretty dour event. Hopefully, it will cause a backlash from Millennials.

Hopefully, it won’t.

”When my brothers try to draw a circle to exclude me, I shall draw a larger circle to include them” - Pauli Murray

Let them have their parade, disparaging it as boring or dour is no better than someone offhand dismissing Pride as perverse. What would a backlash accomplish? Whose hearts are you winning? I doubt it’ll catch on either way, so what purpose does it have to heighten conflict as if one straight parade threatens the existence of Pride, which is spread over multiple western nations, with the support of most global corporations, and lasts a month?

Now, this thread as a topic that would be interesting to continue discussing, however if it keeps turning contentious and overtly political/off topic, it will be closed.

 

[katmobile]

No, there's endorsement by SOME doctors but there's still plenty of debate to be had.



Your kidding right? Hormones have incredibly powerful effects on a human and denying them to a body (even for a limited amount of time) has permanent effects on a person.
As for the so-called long-term benefits look at the astronomical suicide rates amongst those its been done to. The results are scary.



Well I never said that transgerism wasn't a thing just that its actually quite rare, statistically speaking.



No, but many at treating it like a trend or fad to pick up and put down at will. Did you know that there are somehow now apparently over a hundred brand new genders?

There's a lot of attention seekers out there who just 'want to be different' and then gain the 'I'm an oppressed' cache. It's sad.



Identity politics is about nothing but labeling people and suppressing opinions. It's obnoxious. And no, I am neither oppressing people with my very existence not whining about diversity. The rest of your post has nothing to do with what I said.

This thousand new genders is right wing exaggeration there's gender fluidity amongst some people that's different I'm not sure if they're the ones on hormone blockers they probably aren't and if they are then they probably are the ones who choose to develop 'normally' after coming off them. If someone deems the bother of taking hormones at sixteen is better than the going through the already stressful business of puberty in the wrong body then what skin is it off your nose or if a person wishes to present as a man one day and a woman the next. Does it hurt you at all? No it really doesn't so why not live and let live.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Hopefully, it won’t.

”When my brothers try to draw a circle to exclude me, I shall draw a larger circle to include them” - Pauli Murray

Let them have their parade, disparaging it as boring or dour is no better than someone offhand dismissing Pride as perverse. What would a backlash accomplish? Whose hearts are you winning? I doubt it’ll catch on either way, so what purpose does it have to heighten conflict as if one straight parade threatens the existence of Pride, which is spread over multiple western nations, with the support of most global corporations, and lasts a month?

Now, this thread as a topic that would be interesting to continue discussing, however if it keeps turning contentious and overtly political/off topic, it will be closed.

We can't all be like Pauli Murray. Sometimes people just have irreconcilable differences. And I honestly believe the Boston Straight Pride parade will fail to catch on, just like all the ones before, and that Trump-ism as a whole will run out of steam presently. In Europe, I think the pendulum will move quite a bit before it swings back, but in America I hope to see a change pretty soon. What was edgy and cool a couple years back now seems tiresome and tendentious to more and more people.

 

[TriBel]

I'm not familiar with Murray's work but I have concerns about the circle model. To my mind, it risks being meaningless and idealistic. If ultimately everyone's inside the circle, what's outside it? If there's no outside, is it still a circle (I don't think so)? The problem's not with difference - difference is necessary for identity. The problem is with the privileging of one type of difference over and above another.

with the support of most global corporations

Hmm...best not to remind Peter Tatchell of that. 😱 In fact, I'm guessing gay people with a mind-set like Tatchell's would have a problem with the circle metaphor (though I suspect they'd be fine with a very complex Venn diagram 😉 ). "How times have changed. GLF never campaigned for equality. Its demand was gay liberation. We wanted to change society, not conform to it. Our battle cry was “innovate, don’t assimilate.” Stonewall sparked a global LGBT+ freedom movement

 

[thetopher]

This thousand new genders is right wing exaggeration

No it isn't, there are genuine articles describing the wonderful new array of genders that have been discover. You can go ahead and google it.

there's gender fluidity amongst some people that's different

There is the gender binary and then there is gender expression. I have no problem with how people express their gender, they should be able to do it in any way that they wish.

what skin is it off your nose or if a person wishes to present as a man one day and a woman the next. Does it hurt you at all? No it really doesn't so why not live and let live.

Because many of these trans-activists who are demanding that all society acknowledge their change from one day to the next and also that society should be up-ended to accommodate them, using 'hate speech' laws to enforce their views.
In my country a TERF feminist was targeted by the police because a trans woman on twitter made a criminal complain about them being 'transphobic' based on existing hate-speech laws. Most people are live-and-let-live types but many are wearing of being tolerant; the hectoring and badgering and identity politics

 

[katmobile]

Is it really so difficult to change a pronoun? What's wrong with someone wanting the world to see them as they see themself. Also I'd like to know what the TERF actually said because yeah saying something spiteful to a vulnerable person would fully qualify as hate speech. People think words don't hurt they are very very wrong. Also are you trying to say a transgendered person is less deserving of protection from hate speech than a racial minority or gay or bisexual person because that's not live and let live it's just another form of preduice.

Society isn't going to be upended because you call someone a different pronoun than you did yesterday or someone goes into a crubicle in a different washroom. I'm sorry if that's terrible arduous for you but it's better than someone being traumatised or not being allowed to be themselves because it doesn't suit your worldview.

 

[nightshade]

I call both male and females dude or guys, am I going to be accused of hate speech if I continue to?

 

[thetopher]

Is it really so difficult to change a pronoun? What's wrong with someone wanting the world to see them as they see themself.

Well when you put it like that then people can identify as anything they like then. So I can identify as a black person or as a 70 year old just by saying so. Anyone can if they say so, that's what trans-activists are advocating; bearded untransitioned transwomen being allowed to use female only gyms, transwomen physically raping and sexually assaulting women in prisons.

These are actual, real problems that have happened. It not as simple as you seem to think.

Also I'd like to know what the TERF actually said because yeah saying something spiteful to a vulnerable person would fully qualify as hate speech.

It was the usual; the TERF said that the trans-woman wasn't an actual biological woman because 'she' didn't have a womb, couldn't give birth, was part of the patriarchy and still benefitting from male privilege. For stating her (rabid feminist) opinion she was arrested.

Also are you trying to say a transgendered person is less deserving of protection from hate speech than a racial minority or gay or bisexual person

It all depends on what you consider hate speech isn't it? Is stating a scientific fact or political opinion hate speech? Was the terf being transphobic? This is actually pretty important stuff when it comes to little things like enforcing laws and individual liberty.
Live and let live my arse.

Society isn't going to be upended because you call someone a different pronoun than you did yesterday or someone goes into a cubicle in a different washroom. I'm sorry if that's terrible arduous for you but it's better than someone being traumatized or not being allowed to be themselves because it doesn't suit your worldview.

That's not really what I'm talking about; I'm talking about what's happening to children and the real trauma that's been inflicted upon them by unsound and untested 'science' which later causes trauma and death. The studies are all there and being ignored by those screaming down everybody about trans-phobic and the right to exist however they want. But we're talking about young lives, psychological disorders, actual biology, the best ways in which to help the trans community, etc.

I'm not even saying that I know what the solution is only that much more study and research is needed.

 

[Taake]

We can't all be like Pauli Murray. Sometimes people just have irreconcilable differences. And I honestly believe the Boston Straight Pride parade will fail to catch on, just like all the ones before, and that Trump-ism as a whole will run out of steam presently. In Europe, I think the pendulum will move quite a bit before it swings back, but in America I hope to see a change pretty soon. What was edgy and cool a couple years back now seems tiresome and tendentious to more and more people.

I'm not familiar with Murray's work but I have concerns about the circle model. To my mind, it risks being meaningless and idealistic. If ultimately everyone's inside the circle, what's outside it? If there's no outside, is it still a circle (I don't think so)? The problem's not with difference - difference is necessary for identity. The problem is with the privileging of one type of difference over and above another.



Hmm...best not to remind Peter Tatchell of that. 😱 In fact, I'm guessing gay people with a mind-set like Tatchell's would have a problem with the circle metaphor (though I suspect they'd be fine with a very complex Venn diagram 😉 ). "How times have changed. GLF never campaigned for equality. Its demand was gay liberation. We wanted to change society, not conform to it. Our battle cry was “innovate, don’t assimilate.” Stonewall sparked a global LGBT+ freedom movement

Well, I guess then it’ll continue to swing between which side is dominant enough to silence the other.

Some of us hope for a different kind of world.

This mostly clarifies for me why the LGB people I know IRL are way more conservative than I am, and why most of them are turning away from Pride.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

Trump doesn't care about vets either. Jon Stewart one the people you hate has been battling for years to get the first responders to 9/11 a fair deal for years these guys have medical bills no one will help them with because capitalism rules and nothing not even heroes can impede it's progress. You know what would help vets - a system that supports people who fall through the cracks you know like free healthcare and benefits but oh no that's too socialist for you. Let me tell you something the left fights for everyone who can't fight for themself that the system is against or it should. Also you talk about US being snowflakes what about Trump declaring every opinion he doesn't like 'fake news' and the anti university bias of right wingers who don't like what's been taught there. The right censors just as much as the left does and it doesn't do to try and protect vulnerable groups from hate speech which will encourage people to direct more vitriol and preduice their way.
As for the ravaging hoards of breeding Mexicans citation needed because Fox news and El Presidente are NOT reliable sources.

I never knew that sentences could be that long. But the words are very pretty. It's like they all got together and had lots of babies; indecipherable, illegible babies.

Where's Planned Parenthood when you need them?

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Is it really so difficult to change a pronoun? What's wrong with someone wanting the world to see them as they see themself. Also I'd like to know what the TERF actually said because yeah saying something spiteful to a vulnerable person would fully qualify as hate speech. People think words don't hurt they are very very wrong. Also are you trying to say a transgendered person is less deserving of protection from hate speech than a racial minority or gay or bisexual person because that's not live and let live it's just another form of preduice.

Society isn't going to be upended because you call someone a different pronoun than you did yesterday or someone goes into a crubicle in a different washroom. I'm sorry if that's terrible arduous for you but it's better than someone being traumatised or not being allowed to be themselves because it doesn't suit your worldview.

Saying something spiteful should qualify as hate speech? I reserve the term "hate speech" for people who advocate violence (and I mean real violence, not just a difference of opinion) but the laws against hate speech merely drive the concept underground. A lot of people say "spiteful" or "hurtful" things but it seems only to be important if identity politics is involved and some things are not spiteful - a father warning his child about the health problems of transgendering and the regret some transgenders have experienced will now be a criminal in Canada. Society has been upended.

The level of surprise shown in the title of this thread that LGBTQ acceptance is dropping should be no surprise - it is just like the level of acceptance of commercial religion has dropped, not because people are turning more evil but because the extended history of coercion, groupthink and hatred they used to try to bulldoze their way over everyone has made people fight back. In the age of social media, this pushback against LGBTQ politics is expected and will occur much faster with the rapid spread of opinions on social media and the anonymity it offers.

LGBTQ politics is making the same mistake as the churches and will go down to the same defeat eventually. The signs are everywhere but since contrary opinions cannot be expressed without threats ranging from disapproval to firings to criminalization, you are never going to hear them.

I have a cousin who is gay and that makes no difference to me (although he is just as much of an asshole as he ever was) but he became a Roman Catholic priest and insisted that everything I believe is wrong and I must knuckle under to the church. Fat chance.

I have a lesbian friend who is a pop singer and we like each other - I went to see her at the Horseshoe Tavern (one of the great venues in Toronto) and after my daughter took her usual place at the bar, I wandered into the stage and dance floor area and someone (I couldn't see her in the low lighting) was unloading cables from a transit case. It was Sarah, she looked up, saw me, dropped the cables and ran over to give me a hug that lasted more than half a minute. I don't have any problem with her being the L in LGBTQ, she's just a nice person, talented, intelligent, astute business-wise and she has wonderful stories of life on the road. We enjoy each others' company.

I have no problem with someone being other than straight but I do have a problem with coercion, whether it be from the law or religion or culture or any of the other false gods we worship.

 

[thrasherpix]

It was the usual; the TERF said that the trans-woman wasn't an actual biological woman because 'she' didn't have a womb, couldn't give birth, was part of the patriarchy and still benefitting from male privilege. For stating her (rabid feminist) opinion she was arrested.

Good gods, given the utter level of depraved toxic crap (including threats of violence and the legions telling others to kill themselves) spewed onto the internet every single day by so many people (including by politicians) that seems so...trivial.

 

[katmobile]

Good gods, given the utter level of depraved toxic crap (including threats of violence and the legions telling others to kill themselves) spewed onto the internet every single day by so many people (including by politicians) that seems so...trivial.

It's all part of the same thing telling someone isn't a 'real' woman because they don't have a womb is pretty hateful. Gays are going to hell and certain races are inferior is an opinion too it doesn't mean it's not hateful because guess what lots of religious people believe the first.

 

[Faith 2019]

I call both male and females dude or guys, am I going to be accused of hate speech if I continue to?

As a lesbian, I do not have a problem with being called a dude or guys. It is something that lesbians do not call each other.

 

[katmobile]

As a lesbian, I do not have a problem with being called a dude or guys. It is something that lesbians do not call each other.

That's not insulting I do it too.

 

[Faith 2019]

That's not insulting I do it too.

There are lesbians that like being called dude. And the term guys is so common since the term ladies is so old fashion. When someone calls me a lady, I am thinking, I am not in a skirt right now.

 

[thrasherpix]

It's all part of the same thing telling someone isn't a 'real' woman because they don't have a womb is pretty hateful. Gays are going to hell and certain races are inferior is an opinion too it doesn't mean it's not hateful because guess what lots of religious people believe the first.

I disagree with what she said, though it's better than what some other TERFs have said that transwomen are just men disguising themselves as "womyn" so they can infiltrate "womyn's events" and prey upon them while their guard is down.

But I still find it pretty mild compared to what gets posted on a daily basis with no one getting arrested over it, be it by children or even the elderly. If someone were going to actually be arrested then there's so much more serious stuff to go after. This is like arresting someone for sneering at someone while ignoring the hordes of middle fingers and people shouting, "KILL YOURSELF YOU [not allowed to post such a word on BB]" at each other.

And I think it's ridiculous to try to make the world pleasant. While I want (and demand) equality under the law, and can sympathize with some views that say it's not enough because of one reason or another, the very idea that I demand to be treated a certain way because I'm a lesbian strikes me as absurd, unless it's a certain way that EVERYONE should be treated as.

Sure, people SHOULD be respectful of me. They should be respectful of everyone--including straight white males, many of whom I'm quite fond of. I actually get more offended when people are jerks or disrespectful to the elderly (unless said elderly person provoked it through either extreme or constant obnoxiousness or some such) than I am to people who are jerks or disrespectful to me for being a lesbian...or for reasons even dumber than that, like being a fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (seriously). Some people are just mean to everyone without needing a reason. Some people need to work on their own self-esteem rather than demanding everyone treat them special (but not all the other hordes of people getting abused online and elsewhere).