Season 2 vs. Season 4

[buffy1990]

Hi there! New to the boards-been reading some threads but this is my first post! 🙂

I've been re-watching Buffy (which I do often, but this year I'm saying it's for the 2oth anniversary xD) and I've just wrapped up season 4. I find it interesting that season 2 is considered a fan favorite (for good reason!) and season 4 is usually regarded as less strong, even though they are somewhat opposites.

Season 2 has one of the strongest overall arcs (Buffy vs. Angelus) and with that, some really strong plot driven episodes (Surprise, Innocence, Passion. Becoming Pt. 1 and 2...essentially most of the second half of the season). At the same time, I feel like when it isn't based around the center plot, the episodes seem much weaker (Some Assembly Required, Bad Eggs, Go Fish, etc.)

Season 4, to me, is essentially the opposite. The episodes driven around the overall season arc (Buffy vs. the Initiative/Growing into Adulthood) are much less strong (The Initiative, The I in Team, Goodbye Iowa, Primeval), but the episodes that are not based around the center plot are arguably some of the shows best (The Freshman, Fear Itself, Wild at Heart, Hush, Who Are You, Restless).

Not sure there's much to comment on here-I just kept thinking that as I was watching and I don't have many people in my day to day life that would understand my ramblings on this! I can't help but wonder why S4 tends to get a bad rap, when I find it has just as many strong episodes, just not the ones centered around the Initiative. I think S2 is also close to a lot of our hearts because that's when the show really grew into its own and became the show it always had the potential to be.

Anyway, thanks for reading! And honestly, thanks to everyone who runs this board and posts comments. It's really nice to find a community that shares the Buffy love.

 

[Carrie Hopewell]

Hi! Welcome to the boards!

I see your point but to me season 4 only has a handful of strong episodes and season 2 has better and stronger ones as well. Also, most of the season 4 episodes are a bit boring or forgettable but season 2 is charmingly camp even at its worse.

 

[Mylie]

Welcome to the boards!!

I love both seasons and agree with your take on them! Season 4 despite the arc not being the best, is so fun to watch!

 

[buffy1990]

Hi! Welcome to the boards!

I see your point but to me season 4 only has a handful of strong episodes and season 2 has better and stronger ones as well. Also, most of the season 4 episodes are a bit boring or forgettable but season 2 is charmingly camp even at its worse.

I can see that. I tend to get excited in the beginning of season 4 when everything is kind of new, but then the second half is definitely more forgettable, especially the scenes with the Initiative. The campiness definitely adds to season 2 though! I think that's where the weaker episodes of season 4 fall short because they lack that charm. I'd still probably rank the two seasons about the same for me, though 🙂
 

Welcome to the boards!!

I love both seasons and agree with your take on them! Season 4 despite the arc not being the best, is so fun to watch!

Definitely! I think it's the funniest season!

 

[Puppet]

I would agree with @Carrie Hopewell here, that for me personally I find S2 stronger overall; even the 'filler' episodes are good, and often touch on the overall arc as well, like IOHEFY, whereas S4, imo, have very few strong episodes, I often struggle to count more than 3. I am glad that you enjoy S4, though, it's always fun to find people fighting for that season (and S7) as they are perceived as the weaker ones by most fans.

 

[buffy1990]

I would agree with @Carrie Hopewell here, that for me personally I find S2 stronger overall; even the 'filler' episodes are good, and often touch on the overall arc as well, like IOHEFY, whereas S4, imo, have very few strong episodes, I often struggle to count more than 3. I am glad that you enjoy S4, though, it's always fun to find people fighting for that season (and S7) as they are perceived as the weaker ones by most fans.

Yeah I definitely fight for Season 4! Season 7...ehhhh I'll have to see when I rewatch it again. Haha still struggling with that one-I think it's my least favorite season.

 

[Fool for Buffy]

I think Season 4 no doubt survives off one-offs, while Season 2's one-offs are a weak spot of an otherwise strong season. So I think I pretty much agree with you @buffy1990 but if you are implying that season 4 should be thought of as equal to season 2, I say no way.

 

[buffy1990]

I think Season 4 no doubt survives off one-offs, while Season 2's one-offs are a weak spot of an otherwise strong season. So I think I pretty much agree with you @buffy1990 but if you are implying that season 4 should be thought of as equal to season 2, I say no way.

Nah if I were choosing between the two based off of quality, I'd choose S2. But, if I were choosing between them just in my own ranking, I think I'd put them both around the same area (Probably S5, 3, 2, 4, 6, 1, 7-with S 2-6 falling about the same on list, depending on my mood 🙂). Season 2 is definitely stronger overall, though.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I think overall people would agree that Season 4 has some amazing and innovative episodes. I think you mentioned in your other post that Hush was the first episode you watched. That is a great episode. So is Who Are You is also amazing especially with SMG's acting which is just stellar.

But outside of individual episodes Season 4 has always felt very flat to me and its all related to the initiative story arc and that darn Adam who we don't even meet until super late in the game and who was probably the worst villain of the series.

I'm of the camp that holds Season 2 as the best Season of BTVS and further some of the best television out there period! The twist of turning the love interest into the antagonist, to have our heroine hunt him down prepared to kill him only for him to revert back to his souled state was pretty genius for it's time. I think in terms of fillers, Season 4 does a better job but overall story arc, characters (Spike/Dru/Angelus) Season 2 is my favorite! 🙂

Followed closely by Season 3 - which was also - super great!

 

[buffy1990]

I think overall people would agree that Season 4 has some amazing and innovative episodes. I think you mentioned in your other post that Hush was the first episode you watched. That is a great episode. So is Who Are You is also amazing especially with SMG's acting which is just stellar.

But outside of individual episodes Season 4 has always felt very flat to me and its all related to the initiative story arc and that darn Adam who we don't even meet until super late in the game and who was probably the worst villain of the series.

I'm of the camp that holds Season 2 as the best Season of BTVS and further some of the best television out there period! The twist of turning the love interest into the antagonist, to have our heroine hunt him down prepared to kill him only for him to revert back to his souled state was pretty genius for it's time. I think in terms of fillers, Season 4 does a better job but overall story arc, characters (Spike/Dru/Angelus) Season 2 is my favorite! 🙂

Followed closely by Season 3 - which was also - super great!

Yeah I really enjoy S4 but I agree that Adam is really what weighed the season down the most in terms of the overall arc. The Initiative was problematic but I feel like if Adam had been more interesting it could have been alright. But the Initiative combined with Adam's monotone delivery made for a bad chunk of episodes. It's a shame because if the villain arc had been better, combined with some of the one-offs, it would have been a really strong season! I think the stand alone episodes in this season are really great, but the villain is just so poor that it offsets it.

I love S2 but I do admit I have to be in the mood to watch some of the beginning/middle episodes. But, once it picks up with Buffy and Angel's story, it is no doubt some of the best the show has to offer!

 

[AnthonyCordova]

For me, s2 is definitely not the best season. It's hard to dismiss all of the bad episodes of that season and give it a pass on charm and sentiment alone. At least a third of the season is poor, perhaps more.

I think the high points in S4 are as good as anything the show ever produced, but for me the initiative arc is uninspiring also. Comparing the two seasons, I give an edge to S4 because the high points are some of the best and (this is the most important point for me) some of the most innovative television ever (Restless and Hush in particular). S2 has nothing that matches those two episodes for example, is hardly innovative, is more than a little cheesy, but has a strong main arc with strong episodes the last half of the season.

S3 and S5 are the true classic series for me. They are consistent, innovative, thought provoking, emotionally testing, and ahead of their time.

 

[Priceless]

Hi and welcome to the boards.

Both 2 and 4 have equal numbers of great episodes, but it is the overall arc that holds Season 4 back. No-one is truly interested in the Initiative or in Riley. Even Joss wasn't so interested and once he had the scoobies defeat the season BB he added another episode that puts the focus on the scoobies alone.

Hope that you enjoy my favourite seasons, 6 and 7 during your re-watch, and then go on to the comics 🙂

 

[The Bronze]

Season 2 is epic and show defining. Angel turning, Spike and Dru arriving, the tragic ending. Personally I find the one shot episodes enjoyable as well. There's normally good dialogue or character work. It battles Season 3 at the top of the Buffy pile.

Season 4 takes us out of the comfort zone of High School. No one likes to leave the comfort zone because it's comfy. So for me I've found the season more enjoyable on rewatches as I'm not so phased by the change of scenery. You've nailed the season though. Great fun, great one shots but let down a little by the main arc.

 

[Antho]

I'm probably in minority but I love season 4 probably as much as I love season 2. I don't know how to say it but I think season 4, despite of not having the best arc or the best development of characters, it does the job. I mean look at season 3 and look at season 5, there is a world between theses two seasons, a lot of differences and BTVS become more dark, more adult in a sense. If we wouldn't have season 4, it would have missed something between season 3-5 and 4 brings that "something"

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I mean look at season 3 and look at season 5, there is a world between theses two seasons, a lot of differences and BTVS become more dark, more adult in a sense. If we wouldn't have season 4, it would have missed something between season 3-5 and 4 brings that "something"

Actually if i think if Season as a transitional Season (which makes sense JW knew they would be renewed and already had plans for Dawn and the Gift back in Season 3) it makes the whole thing slightly more tolerable.

And I've said it before but Buffy's best wardrobe and hair season is season4!

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I don't see why Season 4 gets so much hate It might not be as good as Seasons 2&3 but it is better than Seasons 6&7.

Both Season 2 and 4 have good things.

Season 2 has Spike and Dru plus the Angelus arc whilst Season 4 has Hush and Beer Bad (which is a fun episode that doesn't deserve the hate it gets.

 

[Grace]

Comparing the two seasons, I give an edge to S4 because the high points are some of the best and (this is the most important point for me) some of the most innovative television ever (Restless and Hush in particular). S2 has nothing that matches those two episodes for example, is hardly innovative, is more than a little cheesy, but has a strong main arc with strong episodes the last half of the season.

I guess it depends on how you define innovation. An episode like Passion may not have been as technically daring as Hush and Restless, but it was, as I understand it, pretty audacious to kill off a character like Jenny at the time.

I'm a sucker for emotional gut punches, so I'll always pick S2 over S4, even though I very much like S4. The twists of Surprise/Innocence, Passion and Becoming are all brilliant. And, as someone else once pointed out, the writers managed to switch the Big Bad not once but twice (from the Anointed One to Spike to Angelus) very effectively, so that gets all kinds of points from me.

And I've said it before but Buffy's best wardrobe and hair season is season4!

Yeah, she looks great in Season 4. And she looks especially gorgeous when she crosses over to AtS for IWRY, I think.

 

[buffy1990]

Hi and welcome to the boards.

Both 2 and 4 have equal numbers of great episodes, but it is the overall arc that holds Season 4 back. No-one is truly interested in the Initiative or in Riley. Even Joss wasn't so interested and once he had the scoobies defeat the season BB he added another episode that puts the focus on the scoobies alone.

Hope that you enjoy my favourite seasons, 6 and 7 during your re-watch, and then go on to the comics 🙂

Yeah I'd place S2 above S4 on most days, for the main arcs alone, but I find I like them both about the same for opposite reasons!
I love S6, and I do like S7 but it's probably my least favorite season. But then I think the worst seasons of Buffy are still better than the best seasons of most shows...😛
 

I'm probably in minority but I love season 4 probably as much as I love season 2. I don't know how to say it but I think season 4, despite of not having the best arc or the best development of characters, it does the job. I mean look at season 3 and look at season 5, there is a world between theses two seasons, a lot of differences and BTVS become more dark, more adult in a sense. If we wouldn't have season 4, it would have missed something between season 3-5 and 4 brings that "something"

That's a great point! It really is kind of the bridge between our high school Buffy and adult Buffy...and somehow does that in a funny way!
 

I guess it depends on how you define innovation. An episode like Passion may not have been as technically daring as Hush and Restless, but it was, as I understand it, pretty audacious to kill off a character like Jenny at the time.

I'm a sucker for emotional gut punches, so I'll always pick S2 over S4, even though I very much like S4. The twists of Surprise/Innocence, Passion and Becoming are all brilliant. And, as someone else once pointed out, the writers managed to switch the Big Bad not once but twice (from the Anointed One to Spike to Angelus) very effectively, so that gets all kinds of points from me.

Yay for emotional gut punches! I am the same! Even though I love a funny episode, my favorite moments of S4 are still the ones that reduce me to tears ("I won't be surprised, because you're with me...you know?") Ugh, gets me every time!

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Season 4 is of consistently high quality, and in that regard, may be the best season of the series. Season 2 is great, but you have a lot of clunkers in between those modern masterpieces. But season 2, is so much more important.

 

[Living Dead Boy]

I agree with @AlphaFoxtrot in that season 2 is sooo much more important to the overall Buffy mythos than season 4 is. It is honestly series defining in a lot of ways, and I'm a sucker for emotional resonance as well, but when rocket launchers are involved? How the hell can you go wrong? 😛 But on the flip side, season 4 has my favorite Whedon episode in "Restless", and a ton of well written, innovative hours of television. So that's when doing lists like these can get tricky. I tend not to dislike virtually any Buffy season, although I enjoy some more than others, I prefer to see BtVS as one big long novel, and every step of the way is equally necessary to the hero's journey. But if we're talking the best season in terms of overall impact, then season 2 without a doubt.