Why the huge Spike hate?

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Okay, so Evil UU really doesn't like the direction they took Spike. So?
On the first page of this discussion he gives a pretty detailed explanation for why this is and even makes note of some very positive things about Spike's character; culminating in the statement: "Love Spike, hate the story"

So no, I still don't think the word hater should be used, because I think it oversimplifies and tries to make the discussion more black and white than it actually is.
 
Haters? Do you know just how hard it is to be a true hater on this board? Talking from experience here, alright? Listen up, people here are like vultures, you know? Savant savages? Bibliophile barbarians? Yeah. They're waiting for you to spew some bullshit just so they can tear it up into a million pieces. Difference? Barbarians come with clubs and pikes, this horde comes with dialog lines and script excerpts and articulate analyses - ya, like, in plural. Bullshit won't stand.

Why is that important? Well, can you even be a hater if your opinion's bullshit-free?
 
Wait, am I a Spike hater now? He's one of my favorite characters, right after Buffy and Willow. Man...I do defend him - from time to time, yeah. To be honest, season 10 and all, I really wish Spike would become something more than just Buffy's love interest.
 
VisionBoy said:
Okay, so Evil UU really doesn't like the direction they took Spike. So?
On the first page of this discussion he gives a pretty detailed explanation for why this is and even makes note of some very positive things about Spike's character; culminating in the statement: "Love Spike, hate the story"

So no, I still don't think the word hater should be used, because I think it oversimplifies and tries to make the discussion more black and white than it actually is.
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Well imo his argument and said description of what Spike actually did is rather surreal/oversimplified, but hey what do I know. 😀
 
VisionBoy said:
Okay, so Evil UU really doesn't like the direction they took Spike. So?
On the first page of this discussion he gives a pretty detailed explanation for why this is and even makes note of some very positive things about Spike's character; culminating in the statement: "Love Spike, hate the story"

So no, I still don't think the word hater should be used, because I think it oversimplifies and tries to make the discussion more black and white than it actually is.
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If you are referencing to what I said, I don't think Evil UU is a hater, at all...
 
VisionBoy
VisionBoy
That one was responding to SilverSpike.
EVIL UU
EVIL UU
Thanks!
Sadly on here I sometimes find It difficult to tell if certain posters comments are just their attempt at humor or they just have a completely weird take on things. 😀
 
Weird takes, humor or "hating" may just be conflicting opinions. This in itself does not invalidate them. Clearly we're all interpreting the show differently (well what else would we have to discuss 😉)

You (in the general term, not meaning you specifically SilverSpike!) may view them as illogical but surely, from the other side, you're (again applies to us all) the one who is illogical.
 
Silverspike said:
Well imo his argument and said description of what Spike actually did is rather surreal/oversimplified,
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My point is, there were positive things said about Spike. To label someone a hater is to suggest otherwise and makes a clear blanket statement about them... which I often find to be unwarranted.

but hey what do I know. 😀
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Couldn't say. I hardly know you.
 
"My point is, there were positive things said about Spike. To label someone a hater is to suggest otherwise and makes a clear blanket statement about them... which I often find to be unwarranted."

In all my years on the net, and in the Buffy fandom I can definitely say there are such people as 'haters' out there, especially when it comes to certain characters/ships.

Hell why would Buffy be so different as nearly every fandom out there has them? In this instance evidently not. It was just an attempt at humor apparently.
 
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But some people (on Spike and non-Spike topics) actually do genuinely hate a character I would suspect but conveniently run behind the "it was humor" or "I really actually do like the character in some instances" etc. excuses when they cross a line in etiquette and are asked to account for themselves (same thing for strident defenders of a character too). We can never be for sure, what passes for humor for someone or just a strange perspective or whatnot, but too much passion and heat over something as little as a character (for or against)? The lady doth protest too much me thinks? Yeah, me thinks. Not like it matters (I personally don't care one way or the other), but people take their passion for and against characters too seriously.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if people just came out and were honest? You know what, I don't like X at all. In fact, I loathe X. He's only tolerable when he does Y, otherwise, I think he is a twat honestly. And I hate his hair. There, I said it. I have my reasons, you may or may not agree, and now that it is out of the way lets move on with it and discuss other matters. And of course, no one afterwards to be hyper-sensitive or super incredulous and demand 'an explanation' for why they loathe a character, and we all move on. That would be refreshing.

Then again, no one has a problem with it for other characters, e.g. Dawn. Just certain other characters. No one wants to admit they are way too sensitive to criticism on certain unnamed characters, and no one wants to come out and say they straight loathe certain unnamed characters and not care afterwards about having to appear or come across as impartial or disinterested or whatever when it is pretty clear they aren't really.
 
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VisionBoy said:
My point is, there were positive things said about Spike. To label someone a hater is to suggest otherwise and makes a clear blanket statement about them... which I often find to be unwarranted.
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I can live with that. I don't like the term haters, and I have objected to it. I'd also get rid of that generalization used too often - You know how XXXX fans are. XXX fans have to run to the rescue. Bother are ways of disparaging and discouraging civil conversation. A clear blanket statement about a group is just as unwarranted. That's usually what is said before the haters label is used. 
AnthonyCordova said:
But some people (on Spike and non-Spike topics) actually do genuinely hate a character I would suspect but conveniently run behind the "it was humor" or "I really actually do like the character in some instances" etc. excuses when they cross a line in etiquette and are asked to account for themselves (same thing for strident defenders of a character too). We can never be for sure, what passes for humor for someone or just a strange perspective or whatnot, but too much passion and heat over something as little as a character (for or against)? The lady doth protest too much me thinks? Yeah, me thinks. Not like it matters (I personally don't care one way or the other), but people take their passion for and against characters too seriously.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if people just came out and were honest? You know what, I don't like X at all. In fact, I loathe X. He's only tolerable when he does Y, otherwise, I think he is a twat honestly. And I hate his hair. There, I said it. I have my reasons, you may or may not agree, and now that it is out of the way lets move on with it and discuss other matters. And of course, no one afterwards to be hyper-sensitive or super incredulous and demand 'an explanation' for why they loathe a character, and we all move on. That would be refreshing.

Then again, no one has a problem with it for other characters, e.g. Dawn. Just certain other characters. No one wants to admit they are way too sensitive to criticism on certain unnamed characters, and no one wants to come out and say they straight loathe certain unnamed characters and not care afterwards about having to appear or come across as impartial or disinterested or whatever when it is pretty clear they aren't really.
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Hell, yes. I can even understand why. There are characters I love in the show that I would never want to have tea with. Just don't try to convert me, and I won't try to convert you. I think that is where the problem lies.
 
Okay, so maybe i'm missing some stuff here as i've barely read any comics yet, but i reckon that it doesn't matter if your team Spuffy/Bangel, or what story arcs they take. You have got to look at the character. I don't think any of us really hate Spike (personally he is my favourite character), we just have different opinions on his love life, etc. I liked Spike best BEFORE the whole love interest thing. . .
 
If you want to look for the reason around the HUGE negativity around this character that seems to dwarf any other in the Buffyverse then look no further than a couple of threads on this very boards.

Nobody likes perfect characters. Perfect characters are boring and irritating. And yet there are people who act like their favorite character is perfect/faultless/blameless and defend him to the bitter end.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

This thread is awesome. I don't hate Spike nor any other Buffy character... Well maybe Riley...
I think people do not value the concept of each character. They just attack superficially without diving in to the eccentricities of each character. Spike gets hate because he had a more mature relationship than Angel and Buffy had.

But that is not enough reason to hate the guy. He is not perfect either. He is just a cool character
 
thetopher said:
If you want to look for the reason around the HUGE negativity around this character that seems to dwarf any other in the Buffyverse then look no further than a couple of threads on this very boards.

Nobody likes perfect characters. Perfect characters are boring and irritating. And yet there are people who act like their favorite character is perfect/faultless/blameless and defend him to the bitter end.
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He's the one attacked and he is the one defended. This is effect - not cause - not the reason for the cycle.
 
bespangeled said:
He's the one attacked and he is the one defended. This is effect - not cause - not the reason for the cycle.
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Even if that were true (and it isn't at all) it's the way he's defended. If you don't like Spike and see how great he is then you're called a hater, or irrational or basically that you're watching the wrong show because you don't get the 'greatness' of the later seasons and Spuffy.

No other character is defended with such maximum intensity by their followers. Maybe its a spill-off from early 'shipping wars' or whatever but it doesn't matter and its in no way justified. The end result is that for many it just damages the perception of Spike. Can't debate about him rationally= vastly over-rated/utterly boring.
 
NikonTheVampire said:
Spike gets hate because he had a more mature relationship than Angel and Buffy had.
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Oh, that's that argument again. More mature? Why? Because it was kinda dirty and abusive?
Or based on this we can simply ignore all of the first relationships in the verse - Tara+Willow were more mature than Oz+Willow? The same goes for Xander+Cordy vs Xander+Anya and etc.
Sorry, it doesn't work.
And I think that "mature Spuffy" is the last reason why people hate Spike. Mature is fine, abusive isn't. Spike has some "hateful" for some people qualities beyond his relationship with Buffy.
 
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