Why wasn't AtS picked up again after cancellation?

Regarding David Boreanaz's career, Bones started one year after "Angel" end. So, imagine if the show would have been renewed for another season. It would have mean no "Bones" for him, so it takes off at least 11 years of work for him. And after "Bones" David Boreanaz's career have incredibly increased. From Angel's fans point of view, this cancellation is a bad thing, but from David's boreanaz's point of view, regarding his career, he must have seen this as a luck !
 

I can't be the only one that would like to see this Lola VFX technology reach its full potential with a tv series such as this. Just imagine it. When the time's right everyone comes back to their roles and we get more seasons as if time never progressed.

Think it could work for Angel?
 

I can't be the only one that would like to see this Lola VFX technology reach its full potential with a tv series such as this. Just imagine it. When the time's right everyone comes back to their roles and we get more seasons as if time never progressed.

Think it could work for Angel?
You mean like is already done with clones in hiding after stealing writing work from people left to rot on the surface?!
 
Uh huh, well I'd think that it would at least make sense for Angel, Spike or one of the other vampires from the show back then to have their face de-aged considering vamps aren't suppose to ever get old and all.
 
Uh huh, well I'd think that it would at least make sense for Angel, Spike or one of the other vampires from the show back then to have their face de-aged considering vamps aren't suppose to ever get old and all.

I think it might be too expensive though. Often de-aging is done for flashback scenes, which in a movie would probably be one or two, I can't see them using it for a television series for every scene that Spike and Angel are in unless they literally appear in one scene and that's it.
 
I think it might be too expensive though. Often de-aging is done for flashback scenes, which in a movie would probably be one or two, I can't see them using it for a television series for every scene that Spike and Angel are in unless they literally appear in one scene and that's it.
True. maybe years from now though we might see something like that on a tv series.
 
Why wasn't Angel picked up after it was canceled? Burnt bridges. After the showrunner made an ultimatum to the network and tried to hold them over a barrel why would the network trust that he would not do it again? How could you really go on with that show after such a pissing contest. Couple that with the fact that the final episode was scorched earth and so much of what made the series tick was gone it seems reasonable that they wouldn't pick the show back up. Maybe if Whedon was not involved, or it did not end on such bad terms between he and the execs they may have allowed leeway.

I think the person was asking why the show did not get picked up by another network. As for Joss asking the head of The WB, in retrospect it was a mistake, but he had his reasons to do it.

The final episode was not scorched earth. It ended on a cliffhanger. As for the series having lost what made it tick, I totally disagree. The show was getting even better at that point with the addition of Spike and Illyria. Plus, they could have brought back Wesley, as Whedon had planned it.

The answer in a word? Joss.
He had disagreements with various people like Charisma Carpenter, Sarah Michelle Gellar and a few others so he trashed their characters in the show. This is why SMG did not sign up for an eighth season. This is why Cordelia became a saintly character then a villain. There were also people who idolized him such as James Marsters. This is why his part was expanded to the detriment of Season 7. Every choice Joss made was based on how he felt the actors related to him personally and all of these choices were detrimental to the show. Then he tried to strong-arm a renewal of Angel and he found that even though it would have been beneficial to the network, they did not want the reputation that a producer could push them around, so they dug their heels in.

The other networks were well aware of this and although the show could have been a winner on another network, Joss was like network ebola - you avoid it at all costs. There is another active thread about whether you would want to see a reboot and many people have said only if Joss is involved. My answer was only if Joss is not involved.

This whole perspective that Joss crapped on characters because of his relationship with their respective actors is always blown out of proportion. Most of it is just us fan doing the guessing game. The only actual fact is that Charisma's pregnancy led Joss to rewrite most of S4 (which originally was supposed to bring back Glenn Quinn, RIP).

SMG did not sign up for an eight season because she felt the character was done. She said so on multiple occasions. It had nothing to do with her relationship with Joss. As for Cordelia becoming a 'saint', it kind of went along with her story up to that point. As for Cordelia becoming a villain in S4 (it was not actually Cordy, ya know), that was just how the story got rewritten. Whether the rewriting of that storyline involved Joss having grudges toward Charisma, I guess we will never know for certain.

Comparing Joss of the time to network ebola... yea, I think you are pushing it a little too far, man. I think it is the other way around. The cast and crew of AtS had moved on, and Joss had other projects in mind.

Well put ,
WE were told that the Studio insisted on James Marsters/Spike by Whedon and they would have possibley cancelled Angel without him ? ,but I remember reading the biography of the studio and that states they wanted a female cast member preferable Alyson/Willow to move over as she had been so successful previously on Angel, but it was Whedon who insisted on Spike.
The studio was concerned about the unbalanced of Males in the cast . Whedon told them to dress Amey Acker in a short skirt and the fans would not notice
As for the cancelling yes they admitted they were wrong to cancel Angel but Whedon pushed them into a corner with his demand...they had no option, if he had left it until program planning it would have been taken up again

This is an interesting post. I would love to see your source for these statements, but if they are real it is too bad. They should have just brought both Spike and Willow on the show. 😉

Just speaking to the cancellation and nothing else, it's the fault of both the network and Joss. According to Fury I believe. The WB always renewed Angel very late, to the point that it pissed off many people involved with it. Because the actors, producers and writers would not have been able to land new gigs should the show be cancelled at such a late stage. So Joss went to the WB and asked them to give them an early answer (in Februrary that year) on whether or not they would be picked up for S6. The then head of the WB wasn't a fan of AtS and generally considered to be an ass. So when Joss asked, the guy said no to S6. After that TV Season was over, the WB canned that guy and installed a new head. The new one wanted to keep the show. But by then the actors, writers etc. had already landed new jobs (some of them anyway). The WB was even willing to do TV movies instead of a full show so those with new jobs could fit their schedule around whatever new stuff they had lined up. But they had been burned for years by the WB so that didn't happen either.

I think this is the most logical explanation for the whole debacle. I have also read about The WB trying to get the actors to come back for TV movies years ago. Oh well!

Personally, I will always put most of the blame on the head exec who put his pride ahead of the possibility of the series. AtS had gained a wave of popularity in the last stretch of S5 and with the additions of new characters it was primed to get even better. I always saw S5 as the beginning of a new story arc for Angel (after S1-S4). It is too bad we never got to see the rest of that arc.
 
This whole perspective that Joss crapped on characters because of his relationship with their respective actors is always blown out of proportion. Most of it is just us fan doing the guessing game. The only actual fact is that Charisma's pregnancy led Joss to rewrite most of S4 (which originally was supposed to bring back Glenn Quinn, RIP).

SMG did not sign up for an eight season because she felt the character was done. She said so on multiple occasions. It had nothing to do with her relationship with Joss. As for Cordelia becoming a 'saint', it kind of went along with her story up to that point. As for Cordelia becoming a villain in S4 (it was not actually Cordy, ya know), that was just how the story got rewritten. Whether the rewriting of that storyline involved Joss having grudges toward Charisma, I guess we will never know for certain.
When there are direct quotes to find at the time of the shows still airing from actors and Joss himself, it's kind of wrong to say it's just blown out of proportion. And depending on how you read what was said, it can paint a bad picture regarding Whedon. I mean SMG was concerned with both Buffy being in character and remaining a role model (very valid and rational concerns) and Whedon basically dismissed her concerns by insulting her lack of experiences. She objected to the Parker storyline and got told 'you've never been to college'. She objected to the Spuffy stuff in S6 and was told 'you were never an aimless/confused young adult'. But what does that have to do with SMG's valid concerns? Nothing. Whedon also wasn't happy about Sarah's wish to stay with the WB after S5. And to deny that he was crummy to CC is just denying reality. Up to and including the fact that she agreed to come back for the S5 episode if they didn't kill off her character. Only for Whedon to break his word and kill her off anyway.

Also the differences in how he treated actors. SMG's objections fell on deaf ears regrading S6 while AH (one of Joss' faves) got her storyline changed. CC and her character get treated like crap by Whedon but AD can miss weeks of work and go on his honeymoon. And Whedon has made it clear that Buffy's S7 character was to reflect SMG's relationship with the crew. So yeah, Whedon's decisions regarding characters was often enough influenced by his opinion on actors.

Personally, I will always put most of the blame on the head exec who put his pride ahead of the possibility of the series. AtS had gained a wave of popularity in the last stretch of S5 and with the additions of new characters it was primed to get even better. I always saw S5 as the beginning of a new story arc for Angel (after S1-S4). It is too bad we never got to see the rest of that arc.
I'm glad it ended after S5. Just knowing that Whedon's plan was to put Andrew on the show permanently in S6 makes me happy. Andrew doesn't belong on a show like Angel. Whedon can get his jollies with Tom Lenk off camera for all I care. But stop with this useless character already. Eve was a terrible Lilah replacement. Throwing Harmony in for reasons I still don't understand. The overexposure of Spike to the detriment of characters who have been on Angel for years. But at least by mid-S5 he started to gel more. I'm glad S6 didn't happen for all those reasons. And we wouldn't have gotten Not Fade Away, one of the shows best episodes and best Series Finales ever.
 
When there are direct quotes to find at the time of the shows still airing from actors and Joss himself, it's kind of wrong to say it's just blown out of proportion. And depending on how you read what was said, it can paint a bad picture regarding Whedon. I mean SMG was concerned with both Buffy being in character and remaining a role model (very valid and rational concerns) and Whedon basically dismissed her concerns by insulting her lack of experiences. She objected to the Parker storyline and got told 'you've never been to college'. She objected to the Spuffy stuff in S6 and was told 'you were never an aimless/confused young adult'. But what does that have to do with SMG's valid concerns? Nothing. Whedon also wasn't happy about Sarah's wish to stay with the WB after S5. And to deny that he was crummy to CC is just denying reality. Up to and including the fact that she agreed to come back for the S5 episode if they didn't kill off her character. Only for Whedon to break his word and kill her off anyway.

Exactly. It depends on how you want to read the comments made by actors and Joss back then. It does get blown out of proportion. Even worse nowadays since the revelation of Joss's hypocrisy. I am not saying you are wrong, but we will never have the definitive picture of what really went down.

As far as I know, S6 was mostly directed by Marti Noxon. I thought Joss was busy on other shows at the time. I remember Noxon even said she came up with the whole Spuffy sexcapades during that season.

Anyhow, I do not see what is the big deal about that and the Parker storyline. How has that in any way made Buffy less of a role model? If anything it made her more realistic and human. Buffy, like anyone really, was not perfect. She made some bad decisions and eventually learned from them. I think this is actually a better way to handle a character that will be looked upon than just make them flawless. Everyone makes mistakes and it is much easier for the viewers to relate to a character that will do the same.

Oh I agree about how it was crappy to lie to Charisma Carpenter for her return in S5. I was thinking of S1-S4. Even then, AtS was as much David Greenwalt's show as Joss' at that point. Part of why I say people blow things out of proportion is in how they tend to put all the blame on one guy: Joss. I mean, it is true that his fans do the opposite and imply that everything great about the shows was because of him, but yeah. Let's just keep in mind that any television series involves a lot of creative minds.

Also the differences in how he treated actors. SMG's objections fell on deaf ears regrading S6 while AH (one of Joss' faves) got her storyline changed. CC and her character get treated like crap by Whedon but AD can miss weeks of work and go on his honeymoon. And Whedon has made it clear that Buffy's S7 character was to reflect SMG's relationship with the crew. So yeah, Whedon's decisions regarding characters was often enough influenced by his opinion on actors.

I cannot talk much here as most of what you said I have never heard from the mouths of these people, except CC talking about her enmity toward Joss and vice versa. Maybe Joss just did not agree with SMG's opinion? I know that some directors love to let their actors pitch in for their characters and that other directors do not. I am not sure we can say either way is better. Actors are usually paid to act, not to direct or decide on the plot.

I'm glad it ended after S5. Just knowing that Whedon's plan was to put Andrew on the show permanently in S6 makes me happy. Andrew doesn't belong on a show like Angel. Whedon can get his jollies with Tom Lenk off camera for all I care. But stop with this useless character already. Eve was a terrible Lilah replacement. Throwing Harmony in for reasons I still don't understand. The overexposure of Spike to the detriment of characters who have been on Angel for years. But at least by mid-S5 he started to gel more. I'm glad S6 didn't happen for all those reasons. And we wouldn't have gotten Not Fade Away, one of the shows best episodes and best Series Finales ever.

Andrew? I always heard it was Oz that would come on the show and tie it up with Angel's new girlfriend... along with a bunch of characters from the past. I mean, I guess Andrew would have replaced Lorne and, yeah, that would have sucked.

I totally agree about Eve... worst character ever in the Buffyverse. I do not think Spike was overexposed. He had a few episodes centered on him and then, well, he just stole so many scenes, but that is because of who he was. 😛
 
Exactly. It depends on how you want to read the comments made by actors and Joss back then. It does get blown out of proportion. Even worse nowadays since the revelation of Joss's hypocrisy. I am not saying you are wrong, but we will never have the definitive picture of what really went down.

As far as I know, S6 was mostly directed by Marti Noxon. I thought Joss was busy on other shows at the time. I remember Noxon even said she came up with the whole Spuffy sexcapades during that season.

Anyhow, I do not see what is the big deal about that and the Parker storyline. How has that in any way made Buffy less of a role model? If anything it made her more realistic and human. Buffy, like anyone really, was not perfect. She made some bad decisions and eventually learned from them. I think this is actually a better way to handle a character that will be looked upon than just make them flawless. Everyone makes mistakes and it is much easier for the viewers to relate to a character that will do the same.

Oh I agree about how it was crappy to lie to Charisma Carpenter for her return in S5. I was thinking of S1-S4. Even then, AtS was as much David Greenwalt's show as Joss' at that point. Part of why I say people blow things out of proportion is in how they tend to put all the blame on one guy: Joss. I mean, it is true that his fans do the opposite and imply that everything great about the shows was because of him, but yeah. Let's just keep in mind that any television series involves a lot of creative minds.



I cannot talk much here as most of what you said I have never heard from the mouths of these people, except CC talking about her enmity toward Joss and vice versa. Maybe Joss just did not agree with SMG's opinion? I know that some directors love to let their actors pitch in for their characters and that other directors do not. I am not sure we can say either way is better. Actors are usually paid to act, not to direct or decide on the plot.



Andrew? I always heard it was Oz that would come on the show and tie it up with Angel's new girlfriend... along with a bunch of characters from the past. I mean, I guess Andrew would have replaced Lorne and, yeah, that would have sucked.

I totally agree about Eve... worst character ever in the Buffyverse. I do not think Spike was overexposed. He had a few episodes centered on him and then, well, he just stole so many scenes, but that is because of who he was. 😛

By season six Joss had real issues with SMG , because she would not tell him how appreciated she was of him , As previous Sarah took her job and being a role model very seriously and won many awards , but with no decent committee on the UPN, MN and Whedon pushed the sex scene to the limit ( smashed was reported ) it was Whedon who insisted the sex in gone ( gave MN the wigging's ) , the AR and the anal sex balcony scene ( something Whedon had in his head for more than a year )
Whedon said Sarah was Buffy and Buffy was Sarah , but as it has been pointed out SMG complained about the Parker thing she said Buffy just would not do that , did not want her mum to die , Did not want to leave the WB ,she said that both Whedon and MN had to talk her down from the ledge several times during season 6 , that joss was hardly ever in his office and its very hard to speak to him when all he does is yell at you ,
Against AH did not want to sing in OMWF so she didn't
They did not expect Sarah to sign on for S8 at the end of 6 and SMG informed Whedon that she would be leaving at the end of S7 , but Whedon did not tell anyone letting Sarah take all the flack from fans , cast and crew when she let it be known in a interview she was not coming back , he used a lame exscuse I thought people knew , completely opposite on Angel where he story was so cast and crew would have time to find new jobs
Now if you treat you star badly make them carry out action that they do not want to do , that they feels degrades them but are contracted to do what ever the show runner decides....they leave ....hang on thats what SMG did
Although Whedon has rebuilt bridges with CC not so with SMG there are no photo's with just the pair of them at the 20th , non next to each other even..... Whedon said smg and him do not communicate ,
 
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Tome
Interesting. I'll respond in a bit.
By season six Joss had real issues with SMG , because she would not tell him how appreciated she was of him , As previous Sarah took her job and being a role model very seriously and won many awards , but with no decent committee on the UPN, MN and Whedon pushed the sex scene to the limit ( smashed was reported ) it was Whedon who insisted the sex in gone ( gave MN the wigging's ) , the AR and the anal sex balcony scene ( something Whedon had in his head for more than a year )

What do you mean by ''smashed was reported''? How was that scene wrong? As for what followed, yea I agree it was unhealthy, but one of the main storylines of the season was Buffy having to deal with her depression. She used Spike for a while, but eventually she realized that it was not going to help her get better and that it was unfair for Spike who actually loved her. That's what I meant by Buffy being an actual human and learning from her mistakes.

The AR... yea I never really liked that. We have discussed that scene so many times on BB over the years, I don't know what else to add.

Whedon said Sarah was Buffy and Buffy was Sarah , but as it has been pointed out SMG complained about the Parker thing she said Buffy just would not do that , did not want her mum to die , Did not want to leave the WB ,she said that both Whedon and MN had to talk her down from the ledge several times during season 6 , that joss was hardly ever in his office and its very hard to speak to him when all he does is yell at you ,

What is your first statement (''Whedon said Sarah was Buffy and Buffy was Sarah'') supposed to mean? That Joss was angry at SMG and that he took it out on her character? Again, that is conjecture. It goes along with the ''Joss Whedon is a horrible, hypocritical, self-righteous asshole'' notion. I still have issues with that as we do not know any of these people personally, so all we can judge them from is by what we hear about them (unreliable to say the least).

I think it is important to keep in mind that when you are part of a large group of people (co-workers, class, team, etc.), there will always be people you like more/less than others. Do I buy that SMG and Joss did not like each other after five seasons? Sure. It would not be the first time a director and its main actor/actress despise each other. However, to put all of the blame on one side is a little unfair. I am sure they both had their part to play in how their relationship turned out to be a bad one. That's almost always how it goes.

It sounds to me from what you are saying that Sarah did not like the path Buffy was taking and got frustrated when the writers (including Joss) decided to still continue on that path despite her wishes. It is too bad, but like I said she was an actor not a writer. If she thought it was THAT bad, she could have left or done something... which I guess is what she did after S7. 😛

They did not expect Sarah to sign on for S8 at the end of 6 and SMG informed Whedon that she would be leaving at the end of S7 , but Whedon did not tell anyone letting Sarah take all the flack from fans , cast and crew when she let it be known in a interview she was not coming back , he used a lame exscuse I thought people knew , completely opposite on Angel where he story was so cast and crew would have time to find new jobs

So what you are saying is that Sarah told Joss that she would not come back and that he chose to hold that information just to get back at her? That does sound extremely childish and immature (I guess some people will say that's exactly what Joss is xD), but I am not sure what is the big deal otherwise here. Did fans really blame SMG for the show ending? Why would they care anyway considering the show had a great ending?

Now if you treat you star badly make them carry out action that they do not want to do , that they feels degrades them but are contracted to do what ever the show runner decides....they leave ....hang on thats what SMG did
Although Whedon has rebuilt bridges with CC not so with SMG there are no photo's with just the pair of them at the 20th , non next to each other even..... Whedon said smg and him do not communicate ,

So, TLDR, Sarah and Joss did not like each other. Gotcha. I mean, I knew there was some issues with S6, but this is a lot.
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
Smashed got complaints about the Spuffy sex scene at the end.
Unfortunately I have not the time to answer you , but their is a interview from Freddie where he says why Sarah would not be coming back , MN says they decided to go with the nasty sex after flooded as growing up was boring , that they went to far , and made Buffy character do things that was bordering on sadistic , unhealthy and it was her own demons that that the show was about
She says that the day that Sarah came to her and told her that she had completely lost the character was the same day that joss came to her and said Buffy been gone to long
As for the Joss not telling anyone, AH was very vocal about SMG and fans went into uproar nothing to do with Chosen every thing about suddenly being out of work
If you work for any boss and you do not like how he treats you you can leave as Sarah did ...great when the Boss own Ego is bigger than the show
As for Whedons owe words on Sarah being Buffy and Buffy Sarah he meant the two could not be separated ...so why not listen to her input?

Must go
 
Tome
Tome
That's ok. Thanks!
Eh, Angel was an expensive telefantasy made by an outside studio that was expensive, had declining ratings, and would have been watched by an audience that was probably aging out of the WB's target demographic (ie, if you were a High School Sophomore when Buffy started, you would have graduated college in 2004.), so canceling it in favor for another sitcom or reality TV series could be defended. Joss gambled, and lost. A tragedy, to be sure, but not indefensible.
 
NileQT87
NileQT87
Actually, no. It was cancelled because the WB expected to fill the slot with the Dark Shadows reboot pilot they had ordered, only to find out that the director of the Peter Pan film who directed it made it a complete disaster and it wasn't picked up.
Eh, Angel was an expensive telefantasy made by an outside studio that was expensive, had declining ratings, and would have been watched by an audience that was probably aging out of the WB's target demographic (ie, if you were a High School Sophomore when Buffy started, you would have graduated college in 2004.), so canceling it in favor for another sitcom or reality TV series could be defended. Joss gambled, and lost. A tragedy, to be sure, but not indefensible.

In the Auto biography of the WB , I read that if it had been left until the program schedules Angel would have been picked up again but the chief executive a guy called Levins ? was in an impossible situation with JW demands
Also they said that one of their main regrets was not to find the extra cash to retain Buffy , If I remember correctly they offered 180 million UPN offered 213 million........ a long time ago I read about this
 
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