Dawn is the key!

[SavvyScoobie]

Were you guys shocked when you found out Dawn was the key, or did you see it coming? I'm pretty sure we found out pretty early on in season 5...

I'm unsure if I really liked Dawn finding out with Spike. It makes sense because Buffy and Dawn had grown apart; Dawn would obviously find out on her own or with someone other than Buffy. I did think Spike and Dawn's little 'hangouts' were cute.

It's just that it felt a little random to me, though I don't know how else they could've done it....

One of the cooler storylines I wish they maybe explored for another season or two.

Imagine being an object

I'd be this key specifically, don't ask me why

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Yeah, the two big revelations in Season 5 really didn't leave any impact on me. Sorry.

 

[KaitKat]

I doubt anyone guessed what Dawn was. I was pretty young when I watched and I think I thought that she was a demon messing with everyone’s minds. I do think what they did with her was pretty original.

I think in order for the audience to care about her we needed to know the truth early in the season so I’m glad they did that.

I also think that it would be best that Buffy tells Dawn the truth herself but she obviously isn’t going to do that because she wants to protect Dawn’s innocence.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Oh, of course not, nobody could have guessed what Dawn was because it's not an honest mystery. Demon dimensions were still a mystery in s5, with heavenly ones unheard of. Gods had never been referred to, outside of Willow's spells and maybe Toth being Tholoth. Even the show isn't clear on what "Summer's blood" is supposed to be. I'm not entirely clear why Glory thinks she'll stay in her home dimension after the merger ends.

 

[NotASlayer]

And Ben is Glory. Shh..

Dawn's appearance was perhaps the biggest thing, because I was there thinking, Why hasn't she been mentioned before? Has she been living with Hank? But her never being mentioned was odd.

I doubt anyone guessed what Dawn was. I was pretty young when I watched and I think I thought that she was a demon messing with everyone’s minds.

That was certainly the impression the show was trying to give, especially when Anya, and Giles, told Buffy about the Rotate Many Foodstuffs spell. Which did end up leading to Buffy finding out what Dawn was.

I'm not entirely clear why Glory thinks she'll stay in her home dimension after the merger ends.

Glory is strong but she's not one of the brightest people around. Who says her thinking is that complex? 😀

 

[garfan]

Dawn's appearance was perhaps the biggest thing, because I was there thinking, Why hasn't she been mentioned before? Has she been living with Hank? But her never being mentioned was odd.

I'm pretty sure Buffy had mentioned being an only child actually

 

[thetopher]

Dawn being The Key would've been more impactful if it had led anywhere; but all the people who know about her origins and true purpose- the monks mainly- are killed before they can reveal much.
Okay, so Dawn is The Key, the Key to what exactly? We never find out what she is really or where she comes from. We know that Glory wants her but since the Key is way older then Hellgod-Glory then its kind of a weak relationship/conflict to base the season upon; not as weak as Riley/Adam was but weaker than anything from the high school years.


What saves the whole thing is that Buffy finds out at the right time- way before everyone else except Giles- and so has a more informed choice when it comes to investing in her sister as a sister and not just as a magical McGuffin she must protect.

But really Dawn would've benefited on a latter season exploring her actual nature/origins and really delving into how she feels about being new...but instead of that the writers completely discarding it for other shiny new plot points.


I remember a really good Dawn-centric fan-fic/drabble that focused on the idea that her gaining more skills/knowledge was because that made her feel more real to herself; she would write things down, discover stuff on her own, because that gave her the sense of having permanence in the world, like she couldn't be so easily erased/undone if she made more of an impact on reality.
It was a nice take on her character and a way better explanation for her S7 arc that her wanting to become a mini-Watcher all of a sudden (before that was completely abandoned in the comics)

 

[silvermoon]

Season 5 was a good season imo, but the whole dawn is a key thing was lacking. I think she was integrated well into the whole Buffy and Joyce single mom family unit, but as far as a back story I agree it was all very lacking. She's a plot device but for all intents and purposes nothing was given to her, no magical powers of any kind. She was just...a human I was expected to believe was some sort of mystical key. I liked Glory, I thought she was more or less a pretty scary hoot, although her shtick at times wore thin. The actor who played Ben didn't enthrall me much, but overall the dynamic worked. Season 5 was the last season where the scoobies had the old camraderie and spark before season 6 became its own curious beast. In 7 everyone was pretty self-serious as the show puffed itself up a little - it was, after all, the last season! No one seemed like themselves, including Giles, who was suddenly not so endearing.
Personally in 5 I would have preferred that Dracula was the big bad - to me that would have been totally awesome. But they went with the whole Glory is a god thing. Instead we said goodbye to ol'Drac in the first episode and onward we went with glowing orbs and mystical keys and all the rest of it, including the monks and knights. The show got to play with a lot, that's for sure, which was maybe the reason for the kinda hokey "gods are scarier than demons" thinger-ma-bobber. They sorta forced upon us fans.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

I did not always respect Glory, but she was the right villain. I think her ditziness actually made her scarier. That and her throwing The Slayer around like a rag doll. Kinda like Jaws in James Bond. Silly. Weird. Terrifying.

Dracula would have tangled the Buffy lore up in the Dracula lore of the book and many movies. I am glad we did not get stuck on the whole shooting match.

I enjoyed the Dracula episode a lot. I enjoy that Dracula took Buffy's measure and cut his losses. She did not win, but he could not beat her either. It was not a draw. Dracula withdrew.

Had he been the big bad, he would have had to be beaten. Buffy kills Dracula... Too big. Even if Buffy died. Dracula ends Buffy. Too big.

I like that the legends lived. And Dracula was not a factor in the planetary risk anymore

______

Yes, I think more could have been done with Dawn. In my fanfic (Turned from Darkness, Xander's New House and others) I have explored her keyness and why the monks thought she was vital to save. I like to think that if Michelle had lived, and if the sequel had happened, we could have seen more about her. Very sad that Michelle never got to reprise her character. It is my head canon that Dawn was very important. She will continue in my fic.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Whilst I grew to like Dawn in s7, as others have stated she was merely a plot device in s5, and in s6 was just...there. Yelling and being even more annoying. If they had their time over, the writers should integrate her more, and be a bit more grown up.

What I find troubling is the violation of the monks that altered everyone's memories/created Dawn. Buffy is basically revolted by her ("You put that in my house?" - referring to her as a thing, an object).

Yes, the monks did not create Dawn with evil intentions, but you've got Buffy and the Scoobies working to save her based on the back of false memories. She's not real and has only existed for a few months. Joyce saying, "She feels like she's mine" - because your memories were altered.

 

[silvermoon]

i appreciate all those points, but to me that's kind of awesome as a possibility, that Buffy would have beat Dracula in the end. But maybe having the gang hang around castles all season would have been a bit too Addams Family in the end. who knows? but I see it the opposite way, that it doesn't matter if it overturns his mythological status. to me that's the point, it would have been cool.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

i appreciate all those points, but to me that's kind of awesome as a possibility, that Buffy would have beat Dracula in the end. But maybe having the gang hang around castles all season would have been a bit too Addams Family in the end. who knows? but I see it the opposite way, that it doesn't matter if it overturns his mythological status. to me that's the point, it would have been cool.

I actually think it could have overwhemed or overturned Buffy's mythos by becoming The 'about how Buffy took on Dracula' Show. Some might have felt it dismissive of Dracula, but Dracula has survived all manner if parody and bad interpretations so I don't really worry about Dracula. Glory was Buffy's villain. Dracula would have become "Buffy vs Dracula".

Now a better villain for season 6? That would have been interesting. Although i think the real message was Buffy vs Life after death... But the trio... Ugh. Read like a bad Criminal Minds plot with magic.

 

[NotASlayer]

Whilst I grew to like Dawn in s7, as others have stated she was merely a plot device in s5, and in s6 was just...there. Yelling and being even more annoying. If they had their time over, the writers should integrate her more, and be a bit more grown up.

What I find troubling is the violation of the monks that altered everyone's memories/created Dawn. Buffy is basically revolted by her ("You put that in my house?" - referring to her as a thing, an object).

Yes, the monks did not create Dawn with evil intentions, but you've got Buffy and the Scoobies working to save her based on the back of false memories. She's not real and has only existed for a few months. Joyce saying, "She feels like she's mine" - because your memories were altered.

The monks' spell is the most powerful, and, really, the most evil, spell cast in the entire Buffyverse. Yes, it was cast with good intentions - save existence - but that doesn't change the fact that they altered the memories, and therefore the identity, of hundreds, if not thousands of people. All of whom now have memories of lives that never existed, which will have shaped what they do in ways that are based on falsehood. And that's even without considering what the health hazards might have been. The three with the biggest changes would be Joyce, Buffy and Hank. Joyce died from a brain tumour, Hank was off in Spain as if Dawn didn't exist and Buffy ended up in the relationship equivalent of cutting herself.

 

[hoponlilmama]

The monks' spell is the most powerful, and, really, the most evil, spell cast in the entire Buffyverse. Yes, it was cast with good intentions - save existence - but that doesn't change the fact that they altered the memories, and therefore the identity, of hundreds, if not thousands of people. All of whom now have memories of lives that never existed, which will have shaped what they do in ways that are based on falsehood. And that's even without considering what the health hazards might have been. The three with the biggest changes would be Joyce, Buffy and Hank. Joyce died from a brain tumour, Hank was off in Spain as if Dawn didn't exist and Buffy ended up in the relationship equivalent of cutting herself.

When you put it like that...that makes sense. I agree! So many people were affected by the spell cast.
I mean, the monks could've turned the Key into any object - a grain of sand on a beach!

This is why I'm with Giles who views the situation from a less emotional perspective (that Dawn may have to be sacrificed). Buffy is too emotional, given the loss of her mother and the breakdown of her relationship with Riley (plus dealing with Spike's weird obsession on top of things) - and she's willing to let her loved ones (and many other innocent people) die over 6 months worth of fake memories?

 

[silvermoon]

Those are good points. It may well be that it would have not worked, but I still like to imagine how it could have been. It's hard to say how it would have played out.

The Trio was disturbing to me in a lot of ways. I thought Warren was a good villain. He was so repugnant. But 6 will always arguably be the most controversial season. I still lament the loss of the ol'scooby camraderie, and it still freaks me out how skinny SMG was that season. it was clear the show was taking a toll on her. I think Andrew popped up on Angel as a redeemed person as i recall. jonathan had already been in the superstar episode as a questionable guy. warren in 5 made spike his buffybot and at the time just didnt scream menace, but there was a suggestion at the same time he wasnt a warm and fuzzy guy. they were the show's nerd trio.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I don't remember being as surprised as I was when we found out Buffy had a sister.

And? Dawn finding out when she's with Spike was actually perfect. Spike loves Dawn, and he was supportive, and even slammed Buffy for not telling Dawn the truth about what she was. Buffy blames Spike, but Spike knows Dawn isn't a kid anymore and deserves to know the truth.

Remember, Spike is always the Truth Sayer.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Could it be that the series got it wrong? It might not have been as the series got plenty of other stuff wrong.
We all know that originally there was once a very powerful Energy ball, in an effort to hide it from Glorificus the ball of energy was disguised as
Dawn, at least that is what the monks believed they did.
Thing is did they do what they said?
The monks said they changed the ball of energy to be Dawn but were they correct to say that Dawn was then made the key?
What proof was there that Dawn was a key, everyone may have got it wrong.
The monks could have been mistaken which is not unheard of for the monks to be wrong nor let alone the thick as a brick Glorificus.
Buffy only repeated what she had been told, as for that spell Willow gave Buffy, it may have been a false positive that Dawn was who it was thought she was and lets face it do you think Spike got it right when everyone else was wrong?

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Re: Key Mythos; So, the best explanation I ever came across is religious symbolism, like Dawn is Girl Jesus and Buffy is the Virgin Mary, and the Key of David is a title for Christ, but they never did enough legwork to make it into a real story, it's just facile Matrix level religious symbolism, like Buffy put her arms in a certain position.

As for what the Key is, I think it's either supposed to be something like the Horn of Gabriel, a device intended to start the apocalypse, or something similar to what is known in Jewish Mysticism as a sephiroth, an emanation of God that was somehow summoned by the monks for study. Which would explain why it's so powerful, but is so utterly useless for anything else.

 

[hoponlilmama]

thrasherpix My headcanon is that the Key was hidden by a soul, and therefore needed to be human to remain (mostly) hidden from Glory. Souls that even a teenage novice with a head injury can summon.

It's a shame sometimes we have to have our own headcanon to fill in the gaps, so to speak, on issues like this. Interesting idea you have!

 

[NotASlayer]

Talking about letting Dawn know she was the key, should the other Scoobies have been told? The more people who know, the easier it is for a secret to come out, and Anya has all the ability for lying and dissembling that comes naturally to a carrot.

Might is have been better for Buffy and Giles to say "We know what the Key is, but sharing it increases your danger" or something? I can see the logic for telling the others, but it does increase the risk (no, I don't blame Spike for Dawn finding out and yes I agree with him).

There were issues with not telling them; witness Riley in Family. From his point of view, his girlfriend is lying to him and lying about lying to him with no explanation as to why. I don't think Buffy should have told him, but she should have told him she couldn't share because of, well, operational security. Riley's a soldier; he understands things like that. As it was, his response was perfectly justified. If he had the same response after Buffy told him why she couldn't say more, that would be a different matter.