Would Cangel be possible if Buffy didn't die?

[MarieVampSlayer]

Hi all!

So I am re-watching Angel S3 and wanted to test something with you. So at the beginning of this season, Angel mourns Buffy who died and decides to move on without her. Coincidentally, he starts having feelings for Cordelia that are different from S1 and S2. So I was wondering, did Angel open his heart to Cordelia because he though that Buffy died and that there was no possible way he could be with her? In this way, could we say that Cangel would never have happen if Buffy didn't die because Angel would always be in a away waiting for her? Of course Buffy comes back from the dead but by this time Angel has already realized he can live without Buffy.

I'm curious to hear your opinion on this!

Thanks!

 

[Puppet]

The writers would have found a way.

(love your new banner, @Taake did an awesome job, as per usual)

 

[Antho]

I'm one of the person who have seen Cangel come since ATS season 1 so for me it isn't Buffy's death which brings Angel and Cordelia together, it's just the natural thing, the way it should went..

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I'm one of those that believes that Cangel should not - could not happen in a house or with a mouse, or in a box or with a fox... 🙂

 

[white avenger]

You could ask this, or, "Would Briley be possible if Angel had never become Angelus," and you would get the same answer. "Yes." Not only is it human nature for people to seek new companionship when an old companion is no longer there (just ask any serviceman who has ever received one of the infamous "Dear John" letters) but there is also the most important reason of all.

Buffy and Angel might be your idea of the perfect Eternal Lovers, but even if they are, the fact is that both had their own shows, and, after Season 5, they were on separate networks. Crossovers were possible, if limited, and a lot of fans prefer to not see their favorite characters leading celibate lives. There needs to be a little romance interspersed with all the kicking, punching, and vampire dusting, even if, like Cangel, the romance has to be just hinted at. It makes the show more interesting, which makes the fans more loyal, which means that the commercials are seen by more people, which makes it more likely that they will buy the sponsor's products, which makes the sponsors more likely to pay big bucks to the producers, which makes the producers more likely tp pay the writers for writing the shows. It's like the Circle of Life for TV shows.

 

[MarieVampSlayer]

You could ask this, or, "Would Briley be possible if Angel had never become Angelus," and you would get the same answer. "Yes." Not only is it human nature for people to seek new companionship when an old companion is no longer there (just ask any serviceman who has ever received one of the infamous "Dear John" letters) but there is also the most important reason of all.

Buffy and Angel might be your idea of the perfect Eternal Lovers, but even if they are, the fact is that both had their own shows, and, after Season 5, they were on separate networks. Crossovers were possible, if limited, and a lot of fans prefer to not see their favorite characters leading celibate lives. There needs to be a little romance interspersed with all the kicking, punching, and vampire dusting, even if, like Cangel, the romance has to be just hinted at. It makes the show more interesting, which makes the fans more loyal, which means that the commercials are seen by more people, which makes it more likely that they will buy the sponsor's products, which makes the sponsors more likely to pay big bucks to the producers, which makes the producers more likely tp pay the writers for writing the shows. It's like the Circle of Life for TV shows.

I understand the writers/network reason for the pairing but I though it was interesting to discuss the timing of the blooming love. With Buffy dead Angel opened his heart to a new person something he would probably never have considered before that.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

@MarieVampSlayer "I see your trying to forget Cangel almost happened like me!"

Yes. I'm fine with Angel having another love interest. I liked him and Nina, I thought it would have been fun to see him with Gwen Raiden. I did not like Cangel. The timing of it makes it all the worse for me. I'll probably come back and expand on this later.

 

[MarieVampSlayer]

@MarieVampSlayer "I see your trying to forget Cangel almost happened like me!"

Yes. I'm fine with Angel having another love interest. I liked him and Nina, I thought it would have been fun to see him with Gwen Raiden. I did not like Cangel. The timing of it makes it all the worse for me. I'll probably come back and expand on this later.

Dido. The problem is not Angel with someone else than Buffy, the problem is Angel and Cordelia that didn't match for me.

 

[Puppet]

I understand the writers/network reason for the pairing but I though it was interesting to discuss the timing of the blooming love. With Buffy dead Angel opened his heart to a new person something he would probably never have considered before that.

But didn't Angel learn that Buffy was back to life before Cangel was anything?

 

[MarieVampSlayer]

But didn't Angel learn that Buffy was back to life before Cangel was anything?

I though so too but during my re-watch I saw a lot of Angel and Cordy moment that were very personal and physical before Buffy came back to life. You can see they were planning for them to be together. Most earlier episode have Angel and Cordy together and the rest of the gang somewhere else which is odd compared to S2.

 

[white avenger]

I understand the writers/network reason for the pairing but I though it was interesting to discuss the timing of the blooming love. With Buffy dead Angel opened his heart to a new person something he would probably never have considered before that.

The "Circle Of Light" thing was just tossed in. And, if you noticed, I pretty much agree with you about the timing, though I go back a bit further by using the Briley comparison. The two lovers were apart, and human nature being what it is, they tended to compensate by some degree of moving on. In Angel's case, it just took a Season longer, and, while Buffy's death might have been the final element, Angel and Cordy had been becoming closer to that kind of relationship almost from the first episode of Season 1 of his show. It would have been her or Kate, but it was a pretty good bet that it was gonna happen.

 

[Cangel1987]

Angel and Cordelia have grown to each other since season 1 - first friendship and later on the " almost " romance if they wouldn't have make a joke about the Cangel romance ( season 4 as example) it would not be that worse, as it is now.

And sorry if I say it and I really like Buffy as a single character, not everything in Angels life is about Buffy just because she is the first person he loved in a long time doesn't mean that Angel can not fall for another woman - Angel already cared for Cordelia in season 1 and I belief it was a slow motion. So yes I belief Cangel would have happened.

Please don't be angry with me.

 

[Taake]

Well, Cangel wasn't really possible anyway, hence they created not one but TWO ridiculous love triangles for the sheer purpose of Angel moping about a girl.

The theory makes sense, but I would think that Buffy dying would if anything be a deterrent for any romantic relationship with Cordelia - I mean nothing has changed, Angel's immortal, he has his curse, he loved Buffy and left her so she could have a normal life with someone human. Her dying is just a reminder of how, if he finds someone else, he'll have to watch them die as well and how their mortality vs his immortality is basically him holding that person back from a life away from darkness. Basically, if Buffy dying opened him up to Cordelia it's because he cares less about Cordelia and her chance of having a life. But then, maybe that's the lesson he did take from Buffy's death on some level, there's no point in hoping for a better life for your loved ones when their life is inevitably so short.

not everything in Angels life is about Buffy just because she is the first person he loved in a long time doesn't mean that Angel can not fall for another woman

To be fair, I don't think anyone is saying that. But that he can fall for someone else doesn't make Cordelia that woman. 🙂

 

[crazysoulless]

Cangel makes no sense and I'll always see it as OOC and done simply because BtVS was on a different network, they forgot why Bangel broke up, and the producers thought it was weird the attractive male lead didn't have a love life.

Angel was still in love with Buffy and still wanted to be with Buffy when he broke up with her. It didn't end so he could turn around and 2 1/2 years later try to date one of the Scoobies who Buffy attended high school with.

Buffy wasn't just his first love. He was born in 1727 and spent 100 years in Hell. By GD#2, he was 372. Buffy was the only person he loved in nearly 400 years.

What makes things different with Cordy for a romantic and sexual relationship to suddenly be possible? He's still immortal. He still can't impregnate her. He still has a curse that if he gets too happy he'll become an evil soulless mass murderer.

Buffy = born & raised in LA
Cordy = moved to LA

Buffy = already part demon
Cordy = became part demon

Buffy = already has visions, prophetic dreams, &, psychic intuition
Cordy = started getting visions

Buffy = martial arts expert
Cordy = started learning how to fight

Buffy = friends with a British male ex Watcher (Giles), a female nerd (Willow) and a male without any powers (Xander)
Cordy = became friends with a British male ex Watcher (Wesley), a female nerd (Winifred), and a male without any powers (Gunn)

You don't break up with your wife because you can't be with anyone and then try to date a girl who reminds you of your wife because you're now single.

Angel falling for Cordelia was in no way "moving on", it was a horrible case of projecting. To paraphrase Riley, "After everything with Buffy, I should've known there'd be transference."

 

[MarlieTheSlayer]

Cangel would have happened,but simply because the writers wanted it.
I simply consider it OOC for both parties to consider having a relationship.

 

[Stanger406]

What makes things different with Cordy for a romantic and sexual relationship to suddenly be possible? He's still immortal. He still can't impregnate her. He still has a curse that if he gets too happy he'll become an evil soulless mass murderer.

I always thought the same thing!! I don't hate Cangel....I definitely did the first time I watched the series, but its grown on me as I've become older, and can understand them together. However, I've always thought the same thing though, "how is being with Cordy going to end any differently than it did with Buffy?" Why are people pushing them together, when it could be really bad in the end.

I always felt bad for Nina in the scene where we see them after sleeping together, and he says he's "not too happy." I know it's supposed to be a joke, but he already kind of decided he would never truly love her. Maybe I'm reading too much into that scene though lol.

Back to the original post though, I do think the timing is interesting, and never thought of it in terms of where it took Angel...realizing that he could live without Buffy, meaning he could open himself to love with someone else.

 

[Grace]

That's an interesting theory. I don't think Cordelia/Angel made a lot of sense, at least the way it was presented, but if I try to rationalize it through head canon, I can see how your theory works.

I think, though, that it might actually have been less Buffy's death than Angel's epiphany that made Cordelia/Angel possible, at least if I'm trying to make sense of it from Angel's point of view. Angel didn't sign away the Shanshu until the very end of the show, but I think he really reduced his hope of ever truly achieving redemption back in Season 2, and his hope of being with Buffy was tied up in the Shanshu. I'm not saying he gave up on it entirely, and he definitely still had a lot of ego tied up in it when it came to Spike potentially getting it, but it wasn't a huge motivating factor after that. I think he started to think more seriously about the here and now (and Cordelia was part of that) and less about the "great, glorious end" (potentially being with Buffy).

That's also why he found he was able to live without Buffy, I think. The mission mattered even if there was no happy ending. And I personally felt like we saw the shift in Angel's feelings toward Cordelia start to happen in late Season 2, before Buffy died.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I watched Heartthrob recently and it actually made me feel quite Cangly. I think I need to watch some late season episodes to get this infection out of my system.